Hogan's right foot placement?

[bulldog2k]

Seems to me that there's no point in implementing a little bit of Hogan. Most other stuff, I'd say we all just pick the useful bits and reject the stuff you don't like - Cafeteria Golf, if you will - but if Hogan has been at the top of tuition for 50 years, he presumably knows his onions and there's not that much dead wood in there.

I was kind of astonished by the fact he requires the right foot to be at right angles to the line of shot and the left at 22^. It makes me feel like I have such an open stance that I thought I should just double check that this is what I'm supposed to be doing? And presumably everything else still has to be parallel to the line of shot (hips, shoulders, knees, etc) as per usual?

[Kumabjorn]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Remember that you keep your left heel in place as you turn the toe outwards. The line between the heels don't change, neither does your hip or shoulder alignment. The left toe outwards is to fascilitate a swing path of in - square - in, rather than in - square - out. You have to always keep in mind that Hogan's preoccupation was fighting a hook.

[bill reed]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

hi
also hogan set up with a closed stance when using a driver and his stance opened more the closer he got to a wedge. the ball stayed in the same spot on all clubs but his stance opened more. not many player use that system now but it did work for him back in the 50s.
bill

[bulldog2k]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

The other thing that reallt surprised me about the Don was his advice to not be afraid to bang it as hard as you can. Don't think I've ever heard anyone else put in such blunt starkness...

[BrianW]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Dave Pelz also promotes flaring out the front foot, it assists with rotation in the downwing and follow through. Personally I like a bit of outward flare in both feet. I am also a proponent of setting the ball in a single reference position and moving the back foot and sternum to suit the differing clubs.

Hogan did make a few contrary statements, don't we all! He said he wished he had three right arms but he also said that you should not dominate the release with the right arm but hit hard with the left as well. I think he tried to make the point that if you get your body and club into the slot correctly then you can hit the ball as hard as you like without fear of an outside in swing path. He also explained that by keeping on plane (his sheet of glass) that you will need to hit inside to out.

[Mox]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

hi
also hogan set up with a closed stance when using a driver and his stance opened more the closer he got to a wedge. the ball stayed in the same spot on all clubs but his stance opened more. not many player use that system now but it did work for him back in the 50s.
bill

Actually - a lot of people use Hogan's way, but don't know about it.

Everybody who lines up parallel to the target line, but moves the ball forwards and backwards in their stance according to club selection are doing very much the same thing if you break it down to the trigonometri of the golf swing.

Most every teacher establishes heels or ankles as the reference points of the position of the feet relative to the ball. this effectively means, that you can turn you toes in or out at will, without it resulting in an opening or closing of your stance.

Hogan turns his left toes out, making it easier to rotate through to a full finish. Others turn them slightly in.
But the stance neither opens nor closes because of this, as heels and ankles stay in the same position relative to the ball.

Now, if you move the ball forward in your stance, that - from the point of trigonometri - is equal to closing your stance. Move the ball back in your stance, and your heels and ankles will be more open relative to the ball.

The key to i all is where the ball is placed in relation to the swing arc!



Hogan believes, that his way of doing things gives you less problems to compensate for. It also enhances your chances of getting the swing result that benefits your game the most, being a distance-focused draw-shot with the driver, woods and longer irons, over a neutral approach shot, to a soft-landing cut fade with the shortest irons and wedges.



I'm not sure that I'm ALL for his theory, but it when you get it, it makes damn good sense to think about the swing arc that way.

Whether you like squaring your feet up and moving the ball instead or prefer moving your feet around a fixed ball position matters less, but understanding why the two things are basically the same was definately something that changed MY approach to the swing fundamentals.

Seeing things from both sides at least helps in understanding.

Images referenced from PerfectGolfSwingReview.net, which we already know as a great site.

[bill reed]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

hi max
i think you explaned the swing arc and how the feet set very good and i never thought of it that way till you pointed it out and yes it does make sense when you think of it that way.
thanks
bill

[ubizmo]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

I am naturally duck-footed; my feet just flare out more than normal. This creates some problems, because that flared-out right foot makes it harder to make a hipt turn. So I make an effort to line up that right foot perpendicular to the target line. Because of the peculiarity of my feet, squaring my right foot in effect cocks my right knee toward the ball. This, when I remember to do it, prevents my leg from straightening on the backswing--always a danger.

For much the same reasons, I *have to* flare my left foot out. It's not optional. If I kept it square I'd have no chance at all of making a hipt turn. The finish position you sometimes see, with left foot pointing straight at the target line and the belt buckle facing the target, is anatomically impossible for me.

Hey, I'm a high handicapper with a bad swing, but I do think that the square right foot with knee tensed toward the ball is a good thing.

[bulldog2k]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Mox - illuminating - I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

Thanks to all for their contributions - a couple more qeustions if I may?

1) At Carnoustie, sevreal players seem to be putting with their feet absolutely parallel. Sergio for one but several others also. Am I seeing things or is this true? It looks damned uncomfortable to me but apparently very successsful!!

2) Hogan claimed that everyone was capable of dropping their score in a season to 70-something, if they followed his advice. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience about this? Is it true or is it tantamount to saying, "If you play like I do, you will score pretty well"?

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Hello All:

I also noticed the very square position of Sergio's stance and a few other big hitters that use this approach are Hank Khuene and Michelle Wie. The thing to remember is that these athletes are very flexible and they square the feet to stabilize the lower body.

Average players should probably have a very slight amount of flare to the right foot and the left, perhaps 20-30 degrees. Still, this is an area where experimentation can really help. It is always helpful to use clubs on the ground as alignment aids as you work through this process. At tournaments I spend quite abit of time at the range and the pros always use alignment guides. We should also.

Another thing that can really help a slicer is to drop that right foot back to close the stance. You can really exagurate this for a practice drill to get the feel of drawing the ball. Even for regular play a slightly closed stance can help with solid inside to square contact. When amatuers set-up without the proper spine tilt away from the target to compensate for the right hand being a few inches lower on the shaft, the tendency is to align with open shoulders. This is a classis OT slice set-up. Strive for squareness with perhaps a slightly closed stance by dropping the right foot back away from your square stance line.

[D J B Z]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

I have a DVD called In "Pursuit of Perfection" that all Hogan enthusiasts should see. It is 23 minutes long and shows Hogan hitting many different clubs from short irons to driver. The ironic thing, or not so ironic thing is that I don't think I've ever seen another golfer swinging so many different clubs but you can't tell the difference because he is so smooth and precise with tempo and power at the same time.

Regards,
D J B Z

I think I'll watch it again for the nth time!! I always see something new!

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Hogan was a master of all the golf clubs in his bag. I once watched him give an exhibition where he hit all the clubs in his bag from 9 iron to driver the same distance. Most all of the balls he hit were with in 10 feet of each other that day. That is how much control he had with his swing, with the different clubs in his bag that he made available to himself. This was also after his car wreck recovery. My point is you can add different aspects of Hogan's swing to your own with some success, but unless you have the same physical, genetic make up, and mental toughness aspects of Hogan himself, you will never swing the club like him. He was one of a kind in his glory days, and during that era of golf. The greatest disappointment I personally have in golf is that all the great golfers through out history can't play against each other while in their prime, regardless of the equipment available. Can you imagine what it would be like having Hogan, and Woods, playing at their best, on Sunday, at Augusta National for a few years in a row? GJS

[BrianW]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Hogan was a master of all the golf clubs in his bag. I once watched him give an exhibition where he hit all the clubs in his bag from 9 iron to driver the same distance. Most all of the balls he hit were with in 10 feet of each other that day. That is how much control he had with his swing, with the different clubs in his bag that he made available to himself. This was also after his car wreck recovery. My point is you can add different aspects of Hogan's swing to your own with some success, but unless you have the same physical, genetic make up, and mental toughness aspects of Hogan himself, you will never swing the club like him. He was one of a kind in his glory days, and during that era of golf. The greatest disappointment I personally have in golf is that all the great golfers through out history can't play against each other while in their prime, regardless of the equipment available. Can you imagine what it would be like having Hogan, and Woods, playing at their best, on Sunday, at Augusta National for a few years in a row? GJS

That would really be something eh!

[D J B Z]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Golf Junkie: I envy you. I would love to have seen Hogan in person. I am a six handicapper that is truly a "Student" of the game. I am a sponge for knowledge and regret that I did not take up the game until I was 30. I am 41 now and feel that I'm just beginning to grasp some concepts of the golf swing. I did however see Moe Norman hit balls and he to had an uncanny knack of hitting different clubs the same distance like Hogan, and was able to hit the target almost at will.

I am working very hard on my irons as they have always been my problem due to being "Handsy" through the ball as I played many years of tournament tennis. I watch the Hogan video frequently and try little bits and pieces as I see new things and try to incorporate them into my swing.

Regards,
D J B Z

[ubizmo]

Re: Hogan's right foot placement?

Todd:

I have the same problem from the day I was born I had duck feet.

This is why you see me dropping the right foot back even for short irons for 3/4 and full shots.

If I put my right foot perpendicular the same happens and the right knee turns in a little and I get a powerfull push that makes the ball fly, but I have also shorten my backswing because of the big arms and chest, so I use it for more of a punch type shot.

This is the sort of thing I experimented with at the range this morning. I remembered reading about a hip turn drill that involved dropping the right foot way back, so that the toe is even with the left foot heel. This forces an early hip turn, so the drill is useful for getting the feeling of that.

Concerning, foot flare, I decided to try something different, and somewhat contrary to what I had been thinking. I've been trying to keep my weight from rolling over onto the outside edge of the right foot, but it's been a struggle. But if I flare my right foot out a bit (maybe 20 degrees), it's not a problem. The weight stays inside. Because I have duck feet, with that degree of foot flare, my knee points straight ahead.

Here's the odd thing. Although it would make sense to flare my left foot as well, to facilitate hip turn, it doesn't seem to work well in practice. For some reason, with both feet flared, I tend to remain flatfooted. If I keep the left foot square, but with the right flared (a "reverse Hogan"), I get a better hip turn and, consequently, better contact. It's weird. I need to experiment more, but at the moment it seems to be working.