Swing/Ball/Hands help

[MrLorence]

Hello everyone,

This is my first time here and I'm hoping to get some insight into the issues that I am having.

I've been DEEP into the game and bitten BADLY by the bug. I have been playing serious golf for the last three years and on and off since I was 11. Recently, I have been wanting to get more competitive with my friends that I golf with and actually win some matches.

Here's the issues:

Swing: I am just now trying to switch from the amateur swinging motion of lifting the ball rather then pinching it against the ground and having a hell of a time getting it right.Whats the right answer?

Ball: I was told by the pro that fitted me with clubs that the ball shouldn't ever go farther back than your crotch and no farther forward than your left heel. BUT my friend, that always beats me, claims that everyone that he has talked to has told him to play the ball more back in the stance so that you can pinch it against the grow and hit it like the pros do. Whats the right answer?

Hands: This is the one that just doesn't seem right. Like I said above I am so used to lifting the ball and want to move towards the pinching method. My friend always has his hands ahead of the ball, it seems like a lot sometimes esp. with the shorter irons, but it just doesn't look right to me.

Divot: My divots when I am hitting amateur (lifting) or pro (pinching) all seem to go to the left..even when I am aimed dead nuts straight. My friend says that because I'm "coming over the ball." Not sure what that means.

Help is needed BADLY and I feel that with some outside input I can fix the issues at hand myself, without spending money on lessons or videos.

Thanks,

Andrew

[oldwease]

Re: Swing/Ball/Hands help

OK, there are some basic issues here and probably some basic faults.

Seems to me, if you're trying to lift the ball into the air, the tendancy is for your weight to stay back on the right side, probably also rocking your shoulders to get elevation and flipping your hands.

These are all killers. So, what we want is the following. First, the transfer. Make sure you are getting a full transfer to the left. Unless you really slide way to the left or lunge, you really can't overdo this. At the end of the swing, make sure your weight is all over to the left side, baically standing over your straight left leg - a very balanced position.

What you say about pinching the ball really concerns descending into the ball. You should certainly do this for all iron shots. In general, the further back you play the ball, with a normal swing, the more you will be descending into the ball. The furthest back I play the ball is about level with my left ear. The only exception to this is a low punch shot, where you may play the ball further towards the right foot.

With regard to the hands, don't let the club get ahead of the hands going into the ball. Certainly don't flip your wrists. Now, it is possible to overdo the lag, ending up with a club face held open, but this isn't likely to be your problem. So, make sure you have the feeling that the hands are leading the clubhead through the ball but doon't forget to release the hands and club.

On the divots point. Basically, I find that my best shots all have divots pointing to the left of the actual ball flight. The reason is that the swing path is actually an arc. If you search for the post on here about Tiger Woods' swing view (where a camera was attached to his cap), you will see the proper swing arc through the ball. Basically, the swing comes from the inside into the ball and then back to the inside after contact. This explains why the divot points to the left. Obviously, if you're pointing WAY left, something else is going on and will no doubt be reflected in your ball flight.

Finally, a big problem many golfer have is rocking (i.e raising and lowering) the shoulders through the swing. This causes a lot of problems and makes it very difficult to get consistent contact. Try not to actively raise or lower your shoulders through the swing. A good check is to take your driver. Set up normally; your right shoulder is clearly lower than the left (I hope). Now, go to the top of your backswing. Basically, your shoulders should now be parallel to the ground, the right shoulder essentially level with the left, not because you've raised it (or lowered the left) but because of your spine angle. If you stood up straight at this point, your right shoulder should still be below the left, as at address.

Hope this helps.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Swing/Ball/Hands help

Swing: I am just now trying to switch from the amateur swinging motion of lifting the ball rather then pinching it against the ground and having a hell of a time getting it right.Whats the right answer?

Ball: I was told by the pro that fitted me with clubs that the ball shouldn't ever go farther back than your crotch and no farther forward than your left heel. BUT my friend, that always beats me, claims that everyone that he has talked to has told him to play the ball more back in the stance so that you can pinch it against the grow and hit it like the pros do. Whats the right answer?

Hands: This is the one that just doesn't seem right. Like I said above I am so used to lifting the ball and want to move towards the pinching method. My friend always has his hands ahead of the ball, it seems like a lot sometimes esp. with the shorter irons, but it just doesn't look right to me.

Divot: My divots when I am hitting amateur (lifting) or pro (pinching) all seem to go to the left..even when I am aimed dead nuts straight. My friend says that because I'm "coming over the ball." Not sure what that means.

First things first, understand what's happening.

The interaction between the ball and the club.

Think of any other club-and-ball game such as tennis or ping-pong. There's the direction of the club's motion. Then there's the direction of the club's face: Where the face is pointing. The direction of the clubface is always relative to its direction of motion. Such that when you brush the tennis ball with the racket, you swing the racket in one direction but point the face of the racket in a different direction. The result is a ball that spins and curves according to the direction and speed of that spin. Soccer (football), Beckham's curves. Top spin shots in tennis. Backspin floaters in ping-pong. Etc. All because the clubface is pointing in a different direction than it's traveling when it strikes the ball.

Let's apply this spin and curve principle to the golf club and the golf ball.

You say that you try to lift the ball. This means that you want to strike the ball by pointing the clubface straight at the ball upward. Correct? You can't do that, the ground is in the way. So, don't try that anymore. Instead, it's best to strike the ball by swinging the club downward onto the ball.

Striking the ball by swinging the club downward onto the ball.

As you do that, the clubface will be pointing in a different direction than the direction it's travelling. As it strikes the ball this way, it will spin it. This spin is very important since it will make the ball fly. Literally. The ball will fly in the air because of that spin. The soccer goalie spins the ball backward when he makes a goal kick to send it farther than otherwise. The soccer striker does not spin the ball so that it stays on the ground when he kicks it toward the goal. Backspin makes the ball fly. No spin makes the ball stay on the ground or it makes it fall earlier than otherwise. When you try to lift it by pointing the clubface straight up into the ball, you effectively spin it less than when you strike it with a downward stroke. That's one reason you send it less far than your buddy. You don't make the ball fly, it drops too early.

Colliding bodies and force deflection.

Look at the golf club, notice that the face is at an angle relative to the ground when you rest it on the ground. This angle is called loft. It can change during the swing. For instance, when you strike the ball forward in the stance, the loft can be slightly higher than when you strike the ball backward in the stance. As the clubhead strikes the ball, the loft of the face determines how high the ball will fly to begin with. It will also determine how much spin the ball will get. When you try to lift the ball, you effectively add loft so you send the ball high and as we've seen you don't spin it much either. So, you send it high and short. Now you understand how the force that you apply to the club can deflect the ball depending on how you strike the ball.

Colliding bodies continued.

The effect of loft on spin is also present when we strike the ball with an open or closed clubface. Open means that the club is turned so that the clubface tends to point upward. Closed means that the club is turned so that the clubface tends to point downward. Open would then produce more spin and higher ball flight. Closed would then produce less spin and lower ball flight. Open and closed will also deflect the ball either right or left.

Colliding bodies again.

Two bodies that collide will transfer energy to each other. For example, when you strike the ball with the club, energy from the clubhead will transfer to the ball. The amount of energy entirely depends on the quality of this impact. The higher the quality of impact, the greater the amount of energy transfered. As we will see, more energy transfered is better than less. A higher quality of impact will also produce greater accuracy. It's obvious that when we strike the ball badly, we'll send the ball pretty much anywhere except where we aim. Again, the higher the quality of impact, the greater our potential for accuracy. A bad stroke would be to strike the ball with the hosel (the tube where the shaft enters the head), for example. A good stroke would be to strike the ball with the center of the clubface.

Optimal ball flight for farthest distance.

For any given ball speed, there is an optimal ball spin and launch angle. For instance, a ball speed of 150 mph needs about 3000 rpm of spin and a 13 degree launch angle for maximum distance. Anything other than these conditions will produce less distance.

Let's put everything together so that we get the best ball flight for farthest distance.

For any club, there's an optimal striking angle for farthest distance. It's different for each club because each club is different in length and different in loft. A longer club produces a faster clubhead speed than a shorter club. A longer club produces less spin than a shorter club. A longer club launches the ball lower than a shorter club.

So:

Long club:

Faster
Less spin
Lower flight
Longer distance

Short club:

Slower
More spin
Higher flight
Shorter distance

But we can cheat a bit. We can launch the ball a little lower with the same club, we just put the ball a bit backward in our stance. As you can deduce from what you've seen already, the hands will just have to be in front of the club. The club will just have to be tilted forward a bit. The ball will just have to be struck with a downward stroke.

Why?

Simple: We want to strike the ball first, the ground second. If you've ever struck the ground before the ball, you know how much power you can lose this way. Not to mention how much accuracy you can lose as well. So, strike the ball with a downward stroke so you can strike it as precisely as you can. Please don't try to lift the ball anymore.

[BrianW]

Re: Swing/Ball/Hands help

We hit down on the ball with a lofted club so that we can contact it on the sweetspot, if we don't hit down we will contact it low down on the face resulting in a thinned shot that flies very low. With low lofted clubs we still want to hit the ball on the sweetspot but we have to hit down less and catch the ball at the bottom of the swing arc. The driver wants to hit upwards on the ball with its small loft so that it can reduce spin and increase the launch angle for maximum carry.

Divots are a symptom of a good swing with a higher lofted club, they are not the aim of the swing. Deep divots with a driver or low lofted club are a symptom of a poorly hit ball