Weight transfer ?

[jambalaya]

Re: Weight transfer ?

This is the best piece of advice I have EVER seen.


Thanks for posting it. Finally I can see what you SHOULD do with the hips at start of downswing.

I have always come over the top because although i always start with the hips i incorrectly start my right hip back and not my left hip!!!!!!

Thanks again............Great post.

Question about the video. Do you think he is exaggerating the amount of hip turn, at least on the backswing, in the video for demonstration purposes. I just don't turn my hips that much because I don't see how to get the type of coil I need in the backswing. I prefer a little wipe back and a bigger wipe on the forward swing. His explanation of why to keep the back cheek on the mirror is really good. Makes a lot of sense.

[Matt10]

Re: Weight transfer ?

Jamba - I would say it was for demonstration purposes, although Shawn is a very big advocate of the hips.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask him - he will respond fairly soon, I've contacted him through youtube several times and he even made the Lag video for one of my questions - just a standup guy and excellent teacher. I highly recommend all his videos.

[ben hogan]

Re: Weight transfer ?

Question about the video. Do you think he is exaggerating the amount of hip turn, at least on the backswing, in the video for demonstration purposes. I just don't turn my hips that much because I don't see how to get the type of coil I need in the backswing. I prefer a little wipe back and a bigger wipe on the forward swing. His explanation of why to keep the back cheek on the mirror is really good. Makes a lot of sense.

No,take a folding chair...place it to your side with the back against you're right leg
and the bottom of chair leg against the right toe.
It'll be angled away from you...this eliminates swaying...start you're DS
limting as much lateral shift as possible...
Hogan's release would of broke the mirror at hip high...

[Neil18]

Re: Weight transfer ?

No,take a folding chair...place it to your side with the back against you're right leg
and the bottom of chair leg against the right toe.
It'll be angled away from you...this eliminates swaying...start you're DS
limting as much lateral shift as possible...
Hogan's release would of broke the mirror at hip high...

Not sure why you'd advocate limiting lateral shift if your golfing thoughts are along the line of Hogan??????

Plus, with an iron, Hogan would have broke the mirror at almost shoulder height. He wasn't as flat as people think.

[Avid Golfer]

Re: Weight transfer ?

I'm right handed golfer.

My question is there any laterial shift of the body toward the target in the start of the down swing?

Thanks for any info. offered.

Biomechanical studies and video of pros swings show the hips (in particular the right/back hip) have moved towards the target (in some studies 6 inches of movement from address to impact). Many of the big name tour pros (Leadbetter, Harmon, Smith, McLean) have also made reference to a lateral movemet being present.

The question is do you need to think about it in your swing or not.
Many of those same instructors will say you may already have the movement, and trying to add more or exagerate it may be the wrong thing to do in your swing.

Many of the tour pros have had periods of play with too much lateral movement, and they had to make changes in their games to reduce it. (Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, and Nick Price all had huge lateral drives that caused them to hit blocks and hooks. They all had to work on quieting lower body lateral movement, and focus on rotational movement).

Nick Faldo (in Golf the Winning Formula) and Ernie Els (in How to Build a Classic Golf Swing) both stated that they did not try to make any lateral move in the downswing. Both stated that when they seperated their left shoulders from their chin on the downswing there was a slight lateral move, but it was not something to think about. Faldo said he wanted to feel like his hips made a purely roational movement (around and behind him).

From a personal standpoint I have found some of my longest drives (where the ball both flew long and released significantly on landing) have happened when I've felt like my hips have made a very level rotational turn around and behind me. I recall at one point experimenting on the driving range with different hip movements (lateral, roational, and o-factor) and I found I hit my longest drives while making a effort to make the rotational movement. I found that my drives were shorter when I thought about making a lateral movement or the o-factor (up and left) movement. (In video my hips move toward the target sigificantly even though I make no effort for them to move in such a way, so its there, but I don't think about it).

• If you slice and/or pull a lateral movement may help you. If you tend to hook, block, top, or blade shots thinking about a lateral movement may make your swing less efficent.
• If you play the ball up in your stance (towards your front foot) then you may need a lateral movement to have your swing bottom out at the ball (and not behind it), and if you play the ball back in your stance you may find thinking about lateral movement causes you to thin or top the ball.
• If you have a upright (two-plane swing) backswing then a lateral movement provides time for you to drop the club on to the correct plane coming down. If you have a flat (one-plane) backswing then you may need to focus on rotational and not lateral motion.
• If you put lots of spin on your ball, and take deep divots with your irons (and you don't to) than you may already have too much lateral motion.

In conclusion, experiment for yourself and see what works best for you based on your current setup and swing.

[BrianW]

Re: Weight transfer ?

The link in the earlier post in this thread to the Shawn Clements "Mirror and handkerchief in pockets drill" is a great way to understand how the hips should unwind and weight shift in the down swing. That guy is very very good.

[Neil18]

Re: Weight transfer ?

The link in the earlier post in this thread to the Shawn Clements "Mirror and handkerchief in pockets drill" is a great way to understand how the hips should unwind and weight shift in the down swing. That guy is very very good.

Yes I enjoyed that video. It's a very good piece of instruction in terms of the feeling one may try to attain.

I think there's a part missing from it though. If I may offer the following to the discussion:

Having thought about it, you can't perform that hip action, and have a powerful swing as a result, if your backside is sticking out too much at address. The back and core won't work with the hips if ones rear end is protruding too much. It curves the bottom of the spine the wrong way and stretches the muscles of the stomach.

I think it's the reason why so many people see their right hip shoot toward the ball in the downswing.

If one sets up with the hips pushed forward under the trunk then it provides support to the turning shoulders, contracts the stomach muscles, doesn't curve the spine in the wrong place and allows your thighs, hips and core to work together.

Feels weird though, and you'll think you look like a fully clothed flasher!

[jambalaya]

Re: Weight transfer ?

I discovered during my round Friday I am hanging back too much on my right side. I have read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos on the downswing and the hip bump and the trasition from the right to the leftside today. Nothing quite clicked. I need to post up on my left leg so I can pivot properly and get the hips turning. So I was experimenting with slow motion swings, shifting weight to the left side and discovered something for which I want an opinion.

I find that when I square up my right foot or even slightly point it in the weight shift on the backswing is immediate. I feel my weight acutely on the inside of the right foot as I turn. However, I do not get that feeling on the left side. When I bump laterally on the downswing there seems to be nothing to stop the lateral movement. I never get that weight on the inside of the left foot. So, I figure what the hey. Let's turn the left foot inward. What do you know. This action blocks the lateral shift, puts the weight on the left leg and I feel like I can turn on it. Now everything I have read seems to suggest the left foot be flared out. But I think it hinders me from limiting the lateral movement and posting up. What do you think?

[Avid Golfer]

Re: Weight transfer ?

I find that when I square up my right foot or even slightly point it in the weight shift on the backswing is immediate. I feel my weight acutely on the inside of the right foot as I turn. However, I do not get that feeling on the left side. When I bump laterally on the downswing there seems to be nothing to stop the lateral movement. I never get that weight on the inside of the left foot. So, I figure what the hey. Let's turn the left foot inward. What do you know. This action blocks the lateral shift, puts the weight on the left leg and I feel like I can turn on it. Now everything I have read seems to suggest the left foot be flared out. But I think it hinders me from limiting the lateral movement and posting up. What do you think?

I don't see a reason why squaring up the back foot would have helped you make a weight shift, but it is pretty well accepted that having it square back foot helps to prevent shifting weight outside the foot, and that it helps provide resistance in the back leg (storing energy to spring back with).

The left leg close to square is also a well supported position. Nick Faldo (in Golf the Winning Formula ) gave it credit for helping to form the left side wall (that you see in many good players), and keep the weight inside the left leg. Ernie Els is another person who posts up on to a straight left leg very well, and if you look at photos of Els from the target or face on his foot looks pretty close to square. Another benefit of the hitting into the firm left side (as some pros term it) is that as soon as the left leg firms up it passes the momentum on to the next part of the body.


(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1...actfacedm7.jpg)

[jambalaya]

Re: Weight transfer ?

I don't see a reason why squaring up the back foot would have helped you make a weight shift, but it is pretty well accepted that having it square back foot helps to prevent shifting weight outside the foot, and that it helps provide resistance in the back leg (storing energy to spring back with).

The left leg close to square is also a well supported position. Nick Faldo (in Golf the Winning Formula ) gave it credit for helping to form the left side wall (that you see in many good players), and keep the weight inside the left leg. Ernie Els is another person who posts up on to a straight left leg very well, and if you look at photos of Els from the target or face on his foot looks pretty close to square. Another benefit of the hitting into the firm left side (as some pros term it) is that as soon as the left leg firms up it passes the momentum on to the next part of the body.

What the square right foot does for me is to provide a brace on which the weight can settle as I make my pivot. As you said, it helps to prevent the hips from getting outside the back foot. I call the pressure that I feel on the inside of the right foot a weight shift. I definitely am looking for that firm left side around which to pivot on the forward swing. My hips are always getting outside the front foot.

[jambalaya]

Re: Weight transfer ?

Yes I enjoyed that video. It's a very good piece of instruction in terms of the feeling one may try to attain.

I think there's a part missing from it though. If I may offer the following to the discussion:

Having thought about it, you can't perform that hip action, and have a powerful swing as a result, if your backside is sticking out too much at address. The back and core won't work with the hips if ones rear end is protruding too much. It curves the bottom of the spine the wrong way and stretches the muscles of the stomach.

I think it's the reason why so many people see their right hip shoot toward the ball in the downswing.

If one sets up with the hips pushed forward under the trunk then it provides support to the turning shoulders, contracts the stomach muscles, doesn't curve the spine in the wrong place and allows your thighs, hips and core to work together.

Feels weird though, and you'll think you look like a fully clothed flasher!

I just read this for the first time. Your idea about the hips seems contrary to to what we usually see. Most of the time the instruction is to stick the butt out a little more. The advice usually is a suggestion to take your address as if you were sitting down slightly rather than a bending forward. Your advice seems to re-inforce what most instructors see as the average golfer's problem: We don't stick the butt out enough. Sure, if we do it too much that could be a problem but pushing the hips "under the trunk"....

[Neil18]

Re: Weight transfer ?

By all means my butt sticks out a bit, but a fair number of people stick it out to the extent that the pelvis tilts forward. I used to do this until last year. Back ache city.

Yes, there is a little knee flex, and a little bend at the waist, but my coach (and the old school players) have a straight lower back and convex upper back, unlike the modern school which sees a concave lower back (forward hip tilt) and a flatter upper back. Not sure where or why this materialised. I find doing it the other way introduces the stomach muscles more to the swing which is good, and creates a solid unit out of the stomach, hips and thighs (which is a good place to feel the tension in my swing, rather than the lower back and left side) and is much less stressful on the back. I am now, in fact, devoid of back pain completely since doing this, and my shots are better and easier too. Initially, it felt like I was pushing my butt under my trunk, but only because I was in danger of penetration by a wandering lusty mule if I kept sticking my ar$e out.

The feeling of pushing my butt under my trunk sorted it for me. Much more solid.

[Cliff]

Re: Weight transfer ?

Many players old and young have trouble from time to time with balance/transfer of weight through impact . So you are not alone on this trust me on that.

My cure when I had that same fault was to build a platform to stand on that would show me my fault while I practice.

This platform is 30 inches wide x 20 inches deep. If you are right handed then set up the platform like this.

1st under the right edge place a dowel say ¼ inch diameter and tape/screw it down the right edge.

2nd under the centre of the platform screw another piece of dowel all the way down the centre.

As you stand on the platform (that needs to be ¾ inch thick so it won’t bend) you will transfer your weight to the right as with a normal swing but just prior to the down swing try and transfer you weight with a move back towards the target with your hips and back. In doing so you will feel the platform drop very slightly to the left and you will feel the MOVE that needs to be made to set you up for a great follow through the ball.

Practice the move then take your feelings to the range/course. Remember the MOVE is not excessive prior to and through impact and can be over accentuated (the old saying of swinging inside a drum comes to mind) would suit many a player.

This will work for you and anybody that has the wrong feeling at impact.

Use this on a firm surface like patio, due to the small amount of movement under the platform. If you would like to hear it move as well, screw a small hinge under the platform on the left side midway so when it touches down you will hear it close the hinge.

Regards Cliff

I was going to patent this product but never got round to it !

[pnearn]

Re: Weight transfer ?

Question about the video. Do you think he is exaggerating the amount of hip turn, at least on the backswing, in the video for demonstration purposes. I just don't turn my hips that much because I don't see how to get the type of coil I need in the backswing. I prefer a little wipe back and a bigger wipe on the forward swing. His explanation of why to keep the back cheek on the mirror is really good. Makes a lot of sense.

I personally think the idea for *most people* of restricting hip turn brought about by the X-Factor primarily has put a lot of people back a long way in their golf swing. Trying to limit hip turn just leads to a lateral sway as for all the but most flexible its not possible. The key is turning the core section and maintaining width and if that means turning the hips then fair enough. The guy who turns his hips the most on tour is John Daly !

Through long experimentation, ive found the best hip movement is to just coil a "connected" straight left arm around the mid-section. The downswing is then a case of bumping that hip forward whilst keeping the head still and the upper body back to allow the arms connected to your upper torso to uncoil by itself through the ball. Very simple, no arms, no hands and you will hit it a mile

The main issue with weight transfer is balance, a person doesnt naturally want to make a coil and let the coil uncoil by itself via the lower body. We always feel like helping it by smashing it fast, and not allow the "Ernie Els" slow motion auto uncoil happen by itself. We try and add speed by throwing the shoulder, or right arm or spinning the hips and losing balance. Or by allowing an upper body dive where the head gets too far forward - so many things can go wrong ! But done right its very simple

Personally I try hard to keep my right foot planted (although I know it rools some), hip lateral shift, staying balanced trying to "sit on the bar stool" - let the upper body uncoil by itself

[Cliff]

Re: Weight transfer ?

When golfers get over the ball we are blinded by the Scientific method of a golf swing the mind is in overload.

Lets get down to basics here, how would you go about hitting a nail in the wall, would you think about a delayed wrist angle or just let it happen on its own!

I bet if you thought about the way you turn you hips and retain that wrist angle prior to impact/hitting the nail on the head you would miss that nail?

Go back one more step here. Let’s throw a ball to a target say 30 metres out in front of you, I think if you are allowed to just throw it you would come very close to the target. Now before you throw the next one think about hip turn and the dreaded wrist delay while you are throwing and see how close you get!

The game of golf is all about balance and control, if you can do that without the fuzzy head thoughts you are well on your way to play this game.