How old is too old for Irons...

[jamesh]

I have Callaway Hawkeye irons (tungsten)– the series before the VFTs. A friend picked up a set of VFTs for just over $200.00 on ebay. He thought that my clubs now perhaps 6 years old (I bought them used) are too old given the changes in club technology. How old is too old…. I thought the answer might be in how they played but in relation to what…

Thanks,


James

[Martin Levac]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

My clubs are 20 years old and still better than anything since. I play with a set of Accuform Canada PTM irons. In my opinion, there is nothing new since about 1960. I also play a set of 40 year old Wilson Staff Dyna-Power blades.

I ask you, how old is too old?

[bulldog2k]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

I genuinely doubt anyone's going to answer this one any different... Golf the Jeremy Bentham way - that is, the ends justify the means. If the ball goes where you want it, what else matters..?

...unless...

Truth told, image IS important for some golfers. It is important to some golfers to be seen with the latest gear, and that will be seen as shallow to smoe, and valid to others. It's also ok, in my book, to hanker after nice aesthetics. Most people wouldn't have a problem with this argument applied to cars. That is, a Skoda Octavia is as good as BMW 323, but all other things being equal, some people prefer one than the other, and - truth told - you can get across town just as fast in a L reg Fiesta.

For myself, at the moment, I get a real kick out of beating really good players with really cheap clubs

I've set myself the target of getting my HC down to 16 before I get upgrade them (or at Xmas - whichever comes first! )

Bottom line? Buy what you hit well, and what makes you happy. Nothing else really matters...

[oldwease]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

These replies, which I agree with, mask something else however.

The biggest improvement in golf technology over the past 20 years has been with the balls, not the clubs for all the claims and gimmicks attached to the latter.

[LowPost42]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

Bulldog, the Q can apply to cars as well - how old is too old? I'd love to ride around in a 69 Camaro or a 64 Impala.

As for clubs, the answer is 'when you hold a credit card to the face and can see daylight in the middle' the irons are too old.

Beyond that, depending on what you want to play, there may be no limit provided you can get shafts that suit you. Wanna play blades? Go as old as you can find heads for. Players Cavs? Again, you can go as far back as you like in their existence. GI Cavs? I'd actually recommend going no earlier than the early 90's, as CNC machining have made for some exceptionally deep cavities and some fantastic perimeter weighting. That's not to say pre-90's GI Cavs are useless, just that if you're going GI, you may as well play a better GI design.

[xiggy]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

the only time an iron set is too old is when the grooves on the face are completely gone...but hey some people dont like backspin so they could even keep playing with those ...just about confidence

[bulldog2k]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

the only time an iron set is too old is when the grooves on the face are completely gone...but hey some people dont like backspin so they could even keep playing with those ...just about confidence

Lots of quotes recently about how grooves don't make that much difference. Faldo was saying about someone old school on the Open commentary (can't remember who) who played a smooth faced club and generated loads of backspin...

[bill reed]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

hi
i would like to add that some irons were way before there time like the ping eye2's and at 20 years old still play better than a lot of other new club, i would say a big change is in the drivers and wedges and get a good set of irons even if there old like my ping zing2's and some new wedges and a new driver and you wont play that much worse than if you had all new clubs, and i agree the biggest change has been in the balls, how they feel and fly. and also the new shaffs and how they change the ball flight, something that only pros had access to years ago is open to all now.
i'm sure lowpost could put my old ping zing heads in new shafts and match anything that any new clubs had to offer with a bit of work and knowlege.
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

If you hit off concrete, wood, or a clean fairway lie, identical clubs with grooves and without will provide the same shot characteristics.

If you hit out of wet, tall, or thick grass, the grooveless club will generate less spin, as grooves channel that debris away from the face.

Grooves don't 'add spin' all by themselves.

[jamesh]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

The Verdict....

Here is an intersting story on topic - note the ball was older generation too. Here is the caption....

"Brandt Snedeker shot an 8-over 80 using older-generation equipment at Plantation Course compared to a 3-over 75 with modern-day clubs. "On the toughest new courses, where you have to fly the ball 200 yards over water or unplayable areas, I might not break 90, 100 with the old equipment," Snedeker remarked."

Full strory....

Clubs from the '80s bring round in 80s for Snedeker - USATODAY.com

[bill reed]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

hi jamesh
i think you coudl take any top pro today and give him another set off clubs from the ones he uses every day and he would shoot a poor score even if the clubs were newest on the market, i remember that happening with ian woosnam when he changed club maker and took him a year to get back to his top game. i dont think you can hand a pro a set of clubs he has never used and expect him to play as good as the clubs he lives with every day.
a lot of new clubs make the ball go longer as it said in that pice you put up but if you look at the loft of the new clubs you will see that they have been delofted a few % and thats why they fly longer, i would say the driver are diffrent in they do now hit the ball long and with less side spin and easer to hit than the old wooden head drivers.
bill

[Martin Levac]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

At the speeds a club strikes a ball, we must consider air itself as an obstacle to overcome. Some air may get trapped between the club and the ball if only for a split second. The sound we hear of a ball being struck by a club, the loud crack, is due to the air being pushed at super-sonic speeds sideways. The grooves allow the air to escape and in turn allow a better contact between the club and the ball. Which would mean more spin. How much? I don't know. The same principle applies to dirt, grass and water, to name a few.

The grooves themselves may add friction to this interaction but they are very small compared to the rest of the surface touching the ball. I think of it as a compromise between total surface touching the ball and the effect of allowing the air to escape through the grooves.

[jamesh]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

Bill I think you are absolutely right. Just being given clubs that you know to be “inferior” to the ones you have has to affect your game. I think I will wait a little long before I look into some new irons. I haven’t slept much on account of Ledbetter Interactive. After a summer of lessons – last year – I learned more with Leadbetter Interactive in the last 48 hrs!

James

hi jamesh
i think you coudl take any top pro today and give him another set off clubs from the ones he uses every day and he would shoot a poor score even if the clubs were newest on the market, i remember that happening with ian woosnam when he changed club maker and took him a year to get back to his top game. i dont think you can hand a pro a set of clubs he has never used and expect him to play as good as the clubs he lives with every day.
a lot of new clubs make the ball go longer as it said in that pice you put up but if you look at the loft of the new clubs you will see that they have been delofted a few % and thats why they fly longer, i would say the driver are diffrent in they do now hit the ball long and with less side spin and easer to hit than the old wooden head drivers.
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

At the speeds a club strikes a ball, we must consider air itself as an obstacle to overcome. Some air may get trapped between the club and the ball if only for a split second. The sound we hear of a ball being struck by a club, the loud crack, is due to the air being pushed at super-sonic speeds sideways. The grooves allow the air to escape and in turn allow a better contact between the club and the ball. Which would mean more spin. How much? I don't know. The same principle applies to dirt, grass and water, to name a few.

The grooves themselves may add friction to this interaction but they are very small compared to the rest of the surface touching the ball. I think of it as a compromise between total surface touching the ball and the effect of allowing the air to escape through the grooves.

What you're describing is a term I've coined - playable difference.

Yes, grooveless faces produce less spin than grooved faces. But it's a scientific difference, not a playable one. Going from a grooveless driver to a grooved one won't have you sucking back driver (although I've done it with soggy fairways). Similarily, a .820 COR head and a .830 COR head will see the .830 winning in the lab, but you really won't notice a difference on the course.

[ubizmo]

Re: How old is too old for Irons...

I've discussed this with the golf coach at the university where I work. His opinion is also that the technology that has changed the most in the last 15 or so years is in the balls and drivers. With respect to irons, he says that the main thing is cavity versus blade, and after that it's just a matter of personal feel. If you need more forgiveness, then use cavity-backs and find ones that feel good in your hands, end of story.

My first two years of playing, I didn't have a matched set. I just had irons that I picked up here and there. Yard sales, etc. The good people on this forum convinced me that as I struggle for consistency I should at least have a matched set of irons. At that time, one of the clubs I liked best in my bag was a Powerbilt Fuzzy Zoeller 9i, from the early 1990s, I believe. So I went on ebay and picked up a whole set for $20 and regripped them. They are what I still use, and I still like them.

On a few occasions when I've played with really good players, I've asked them to hit a few balls with my old irons. Not surprisingly, they hit the ball beautifully. When I asked if they thought I should get new irons, they both said "There's nothing wrong with these."