After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

[cyc53870]

All this talk about technique frightens me a bit... So many tips, yes, thousands of 'em and you gotta sift thru the mess and find out which one applies to your one or two plane swing. Yeehah!

For the very few talented ones it ain't a problem. But for 80 percent(?) of us, practice will make us better each year, eh? True enough, you can only tweak your swing here and there in small steps... But with religious practice the game keeps getting better and I am looking forward to the next five years and more!

I just wish I could have started earier... Any veterans out there who wanna enlighten this forum on their five, ten and twenty year progressions? It's a bit of a dilemma since I believe that any radical swing change usually happens only during the first year or so and later on, there can only be some minor tweaking or following of tips although the basic swing remains the same as your signature. But I could be wrong of course...

[Neil18]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

I'm by no means a veteran at the age of 27, but I have been playing this game seriously for 5 years now, so I can tell you that my swing 5 years ago looks and performs absolutley nothing like my swing now, and the results are far greater than I'd anticipated. Most of the big changes have also happened in the last 18 months.

Plus I've managed to cut my handicap from 16 to 5 in that time, so yes, it does take time, but changes for the good have to be endured.

To make the changes I needed to/wanted to make took 5 years, several coaches (until I found the one that works for me-very important), several combinations of clubs, almost chucking the game in twice and so much patience I am now THE most patient person in my world. On so many occasions I was guilty of getting annoyed with not getting where I wanted to get, and hence settling for what I had or falling into the trap of thinking I was trying something different but actually wasn't. The biggest fault I think we all make is deciding to make a change, trying it, finding out it doesn't work immediately, or even after a few weeks/months, and then gradually falling back to what we used to do or trying something else because "it was better before I started trying to improve".

Keep going. It's there. Pick a method and practice it. Even if it means embarrassing yourself for a bit.

When you find the swing method that works for you, tips won't interest you any more. Golf is so much easier when you practice doing ABC all the time instead of practicing ABC, then DEF then XYZ. I would stress though that it is important to find the right coach to give you the right guidance. It gives so much confidence in what you're trying to achieve. Then the discipline needs to kick in to stick with it and put on blinkers to other methods/well-meaning advice/tips etc, even if you get worse at first.

However, in my experience, when you've got the right method for you married up with the right coach that can be seen once a month or two, the improvement accelerates.

[BrianW]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

I know a guy that managed to get to a 12 handicap with his home made swing, every so often it would completely fall apart and he did not understand why.

Last year he took my advice and had a six month series of lessons with a good local instructor, his swing was taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up. Although he got much worse while learning he now plays with a nice classic swing that requires low maintenance. He is back to 12 and getting better.

[xiggy]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

uhm...i dont know if im considered a veteran either...because im only 15 lol...but i have been golfing for over 7 years and it always gets better......during spring this year which was time for our highschool golf team my average was about a 50 on nine holes...now that its the end of summer...i hit in the low 40's...and i actually shot a 38 (3 over) so im getting much better...now time to time my swing falls apart and its just a minor fix to get back on the road....i have only taken lessons twice in my life (when i was 10 and 11 i think)..and that taught me my basic swing...and since then just naturally i have gotten better by a lot of practice...a whole lot lol

[bulldog2k]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

I play with two players who play with wildly unorthodox swings - I'll see if I can get videos of them up because both of them provide hope for many of us in that, whilst their swings won't win beauty prizes (comically so), they both play off 11.

It's the old Jeremy Bentham school of golf - the ends justify the means...

[slater170]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

I play with two players who play with wildly unorthodox swings - I'll see if I can get videos of them up because both of them provide hope for many of us in that, whilst their swings won't win beauty prizes (comically so), they both play off 11.

It's the old Jeremy Bentham school of golf - the ends justify the means...

bulldog you so right with that post
played in the medal last week with 2 guys 1 off 10 and the other off 11.
the 10 had the shortest choppy swing id ever seen and the other had a furykesque loopy type affair but they were both straight and long hitters.
then there's me striving for the classic swing and most of the time couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo!

[bdbl]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

..there's me striving for the classic swing and most of the time couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo!

Ah but when you're off scratch with a classic swing then you'll know the effort is worth it

[BrianW]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

If someone wants to excel at athletics, gymnastics, karate, tennis, hockey, football, rugby, squash, boxing, etc etc etc you will need to be trained and coached. Why do people think golf is any different? OK, you could be a casual pole vaulter, a "I only do it for the exercise" squash player, that's fine if you are content with your limitations.

People are quite at liberty to be a "I only play for laugh with my mates for the social aspect" golfer, many are and enjoy that. It's absolutely true that many many people play golf with a "Happy Gilmore" home made swing and can play to a reasonable standard that way. But! Please don't offer that advice to those that aspire to become golfers that can break 80 on a regular basis or have a wish to be competitive in club competitions. Ask yourself this question "Why are there people out there like Greg Willis, Greg Hutton or Cmays?

Most if not all that subscribe to a site like this are interested if not serious about this great game, some may not have the finances to get professional coaching, some may believe that coaching is not necessary or may be so naturally athletic or coordinated that the golf swing is a simple thing for them to master. I am not one of the latter and I suspect that 90% of the golfing fraternity are the same, so here is my bottom line:

If you are a standard Joe and want to start playing golf then take some lessons, if that is not possible read some starter books and ask questions from someone you trust, then practice until your hands bleed, just like any other sport.

[bulldog2k]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

Err, ok, I opened this particular can of worms, so I guess I'll have to respond to that...

I have been used to prefacing all my comments - and I have tried in general not to give advice, because, while flattering to do so, I know with certainty that I'm not qualified - with "I'm just a high HC - don't listen to me". I'd stopped doing that because I hoped people had got the hang of that...

My comment wasn't in any sense intended as a block to taking lessons, or as a suggestion that 'home grown is best'. I'm a driving instructor, and I've no doubt that there's a direct analogy - everyone think's they're an expert and yet no one can ever evidence it...

My comment was really meant to reflect how big the world of golf is - that (it seems to me) it's okay to not have an orthodox swing or a beautiful swing. Furyk's dad refused to let him be coached out of the loop because what he had worked. I meant to imply it's ok to be unorthodox if what you do works. I couldn't speak for the high end of stuff, and only meant to suggest that a closed mindset was bad, not that coaching was not required.

But - as I've always said - I'm just a 22 hacker and no one should listen to me

[BrianW]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

Err, ok, I opened this particular can of worms, so I guess I'll have to respond to that...

I have been used to prefacing all my comments - and I have tried in general not to give advice, because, while flattering to do so, I know with certainty that I'm not qualified - with "I'm just a high HC - don't listen to me". I'd stopped doing that because I hoped people had got the hang of that...

My comment wasn't in any sense intended as a block to taking lessons, or as a suggestion that 'home grown is best'. I'm a driving instructor, and I've no doubt that there's a direct analogy - everyone think's they're an expert and yet no one can ever evidence it...

My comment was really meant to reflect how big the world of golf is - that (it seems to me) it's okay to not have an orthodox swing or a beautiful swing. Furyk's dad refused to let him be coached out of the loop because what he had worked. I meant to imply it's ok to be unorthodox if what you do works. I couldn't speak for the high end of stuff, and only meant to suggest that a closed mindset was bad, not that coaching was not required.

But - as I've always said - I'm just a 22 hacker and no one should listen to me

Ian,

That was not my point. You should state your opinion and offer advice where you can, a site like this needs inputs from all levels, your opinions and suggestions are welcome by all, especially by me.

I am merely doing the same and offering advice based on my own experiences, others can accept or reject these opinions, I am content with that.

[slater170]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

If someone wants to excel at athletics, gymnastics, karate, tennis, hockey, football, rugby, squash, boxing, etc etc etc you will need to be trained and coached. Why do people think golf is any different? OK, you could be a casual pole vaulter, a "I only do it for the exercise" squash player, that's fine if you are content with your limitations.

People are quite at liberty to be a "I only play for laugh with my mates for the social aspect" golfer, many are and enjoy that. It's absolutely true that many many people play golf with a "Happy Gilmore" home made swing and can play to a reasonable standard that way. But! Please don't offer that advice to those that aspire to become golfers that can break 80 on a regular basis or have a wish to be competitive in club competitions. Ask yourself this question "Why are there people out there like Greg Willis, Greg Hutton or Cmays?

Most if not all that subscribe to a site like this are interested if not serious about this great game, some may not have the finances to get professional coaching, some may believe that coaching is not necessary or may be so naturally athletic or coordinated that the golf swing is a simple thing for them to master. I am not one of the latter and I suspect that 90% of the golfing fraternity are the same, so here is my bottom line:

If you are a standard Joe and want to start playing golf then take some lessons, if that is not possible read some starter books and ask questions from someone you trust, then practice until your hands bleed, just like any other sport.

very warm at the range today by the time id finshed my hands werent bleeding but they were bloody sore!

[BrianW]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

very warm at the range today by the time id finshed my hands werent bleeding but they were bloody sore!

Err! That was a bit of a metaphor Slats.

I had a couple of days off this week. Played 18 holes with my dearest Thursday, another 9 Friday, played a twin golf society competition today (Runner up ) and have been roped into a club team match tomorrow: Don't know about my hands but my brain is hurting and my back has a mind of its own!

[slater170]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

Err! That was a bit of a metaphor Slats.

I had a couple of days off this week. Played 18 holes with my dearest Thursday, another 9 Friday, played a twin golf society competition today (Runner up ) and have been roped into a club team match tomorrow: Don't know about my hands but my brain is hurting and my back has a mind of its own!

thats a lot of golf brian!
congrats on the 2nd place
im playing in an open this morning at denton in manchester, just been checking out the course on tinternet lt looks a little tricky in places

[bdbl]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

"Why are there people out there like Greg Willis, Greg Hutton or Cmays?

If you are a standard Joe and want to start playing golf then take some lessons, if that is not possible read some starter books and ask questions from someone you trust, then practice until your hands bleed, just like any other sport.

A recurring question this one and Greg W refers to it in the introduction to his site; it is perfectly possible to play to low double figures by practising your ugly quirky flawed swing until it produces a consistent result that you can live with. In some ways you will be a happier golfer than those forever seeking improvement.

Take my brother for instance, a very odd, "personal" swing but he plays to 14, plays twice a week and has a couple of golfing breaks a year thrown in and he's happy with his game. I don't think he''ll ever improve from here because he'd rather play than take lessons or practice.

On the other hand there are those lucky bar stewards who can just play the game [Lee, Seve name your own]. And then there is us.

If we want to improve then imo we need some basics and some fundamentals and this implies lessons.

The problem is, and I'd love to know what the coaches on here think, in my experience the vast majority of golf teachers are very very poor; they can all play the game sure but very few can change their teaching style to meet the needs of the pupil, most if not all try to teach a variation of their own swing ratehr than one that suits the limititations of their pupil, few seem really involved in the lesson and look as if they are going through the motions.

My approach now is to work on my interpretation of the LK method, listen to a few from here [there are many worth listening to but too many cooks...] and from time to time seek out a lesson with a different pro in the hope that one clicks for me.

I'm also a pragmatist though; I didn't really take this game up properly until my late forties and I suspect there are limits to where I'll get to, so when I stop improving working the way I am then I'll settle for flawed but consistent and try to play the course with the swing I have.

[cyc53870]

Re: After 5 years... Hooray for the Veterans of Golf!

It looks like we all agree that golf is notoriously difficult to learn...

Golf was invented centuries ago and though there have been many hi-tech improvements in golfballs and metalwoods, etc. it seems that many people today (millions) are still discouraged and quit the sport becuase of its difficulty. Why can't it be taught properly?

There are certainly many books and intelligent people around. Is it because golf has no secret but hard work for 90 percent of us? Or perhaps there are two kinds of swings that should not be mixed (one and two plane swings) which both teachers and students keep mixing up?

Perhaps humankind still needs a few more hundred years before we can seriously say "Golf is such an easy sport nowadays."