Question for the swing gurus out there.

[frosty1s]

When I hit balls on the range I use 2 common drills with great sucess. I hit balls with my feet together or I drop my right foot back and hit balls. the results are so much straighter than with my regular swing I am almost ready to start playing this way. Any ideas on what these drills are doing for my swing that I can't repeat with my standard swing (lots of pulls and occaisional blocks)?? Any toughts would be much appreciated.

[bill reed]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

hi
ballance and not swinging to hard, and the second helps you swing from inside to out and roll over your wrist's after playing the ball.
it also help you with finding the right tempo.
bill

[Martin Levac]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

The purpose of drills is not merely for them to be performed properly. Instead, they are intended to teach concepts that can be transfered to the normal swing/stroke. Such as those outlined by Bill Reed. Once you have learned the concepts, it serves little purpose to continue doing the drills. Unless you forget about those concepts and must get back on track, so to speak. So, do the drill a couple of times to get the feel for the concept that it teaches, then adapt that concept to the full swing.

The feet together drill. It teaches about balance. And counter-balance. As you extend the club to one side, you must counter-balance that by moving slightly to the other side. As you swing the club, this motion is exaggerated slightly to account for the greater forces.This motion can be mistaken for trying to help the ball up as you strike it. Because when you do try to help the ball up, you are moving back just like when you counter-balance with your feet together.

The right foot back drill is intended to teach the in-to-out swing path concept. But it can work in reverse depending on your perception. Try the other extreme, right foot forward. With the right foot back, you're changing the position of you stance. The out-to-in swing path is still there relative to your stance but now it's aligned properly with the target line. Come to think of it, you might as well play with your right foot back since it works like you said.



I use another drill. This one is intended to teach proper contact amongst other things. It's quite simple really, there's nothing special about it. Normal stance, normal everything. Except, do a half swing. Focus on striking the ball properly above all else. Focus on the ball. Focus on the spot where the ball was even after you struck it. Repeat.

As you focus on the spot where the ball was, you change your focus from "where the ball is going" to "what's happening in front of you". As you focus on what's happening in front of you, you put all your attention toward striking the ball properly. You begin to see things you haven't seen before. You see the ball being struck and launched. You see the divot being dug. You see your arms, hands and club whoosh past in front of you. The normal picture you expect of a swing will change from "where's the ball going now" to "let's send the ball there".

[pnearn]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

When I hit balls on the range I use 2 common drills with great sucess. I hit balls with my feet together or I drop my right foot back and hit balls. the results are so much straighter than with my regular swing I am almost ready to start playing this way. Any ideas on what these drills are doing for my swing that I can't repeat with my standard swing (lots of pulls and occaisional blocks)?? Any toughts would be much appreciated.

OK, I know exactly where youre coming from because I have this problem and I use these 2 drils to get it cured too! Basically in a normal swing you are not shifting youre weight left and you end up swinging with your hands and arms and you come OTT with most of your weight on your back foot as you start down. That will always equal a pull (try it and see by keeping all the weight on you trail foot and swinging at the ball with your hands). As soon as you stand with your feet together your weight has to shift left and your hips have to turn (else you would fall over) so you hit the ball great. The back foot dropped is a band aid for the problem (your aligning way to the right to compensate) so forget that.

I would suggest.... one, have a narrower stance. Not too much but if you are a tall guy than insteps matched to the shoulders isnt as wide as you may think. Secondly, on the downswing, you have to (1)shift the hips left...left hip will go up slightly, right shoulder will come down, club will flatten, (2)rotate the hips and (3) feel that turn drag you left arm into the back of the ball. If you start going right you need to turn more. For the longer clubs you may also want to add a litte forearm rotation (I rotate the forearms for Driver to 4i) and leave the body to do it for anything less

[frosty1s]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

Thanks to all
I think pearn is on to something. I am tall and I was playing with a wider stance, I will try narrowing it up a bit and shifting my weight. Although most of my attempts at a weight shift turn into a slide. The one thing I have really never understood about the golf swing is weight shift. I have never under stood how your weight can be on your front foot when your head and center of gravity are behind the ball (like the pros)? How the hell do you create a descending blow with your head and center behind the ball? When I do get my weight on my front foot I am over the top. When I stay behind the ball to stop the over the top I slide and block.

[bill reed]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

hi
the big mistake in weight shift is thinking about striking the ball, with weight shift its about swinging a golf club to a high finish and the ball just happens to get in the way off the club, when you think of striking the ball your swing starts to slow as you get to the ball and you dont push off your right foot, its something in the mind and the only way to get away from it is to think of the impact point to be past your left ankle if your right handed and thats gets you more onto your left side and keeps you going through the ball past impact, when you swing and forget about the ball the ball just seems to fly off the club face and it work so well on short pitches and chips too, let the weight shift happen but dont try and control it as then it fells false and dont work, feet together and feel your knees move to the left works and then slowly open legs a little and get that feeling of of your right elbow and hip moving through the ball together.
and keep the right knee flexed and dont let it sway back.
you could wright pages about weight shift and hip slid, i hope this helps you a little.
bill

[frosty1s]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

By the way, to cmays: what do you mean by all we have to do now is adjust the front side? In what way? Thanks.

[frosty1s]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

Thanks good stuff.

[cyc53870]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

I was reading somewhere that a narrower stance delivers more power, cmays... But others say to take a wider stance...

[golfndawg]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

Power and I am not speaking about speed and distance is being able to direct as much muscle mass, clubhead mass directly down into the back of the ball and remaining in balance.

Throwing the tennis ball off the 100 foot roof and not dropping it off the roof.

I had a 37 year old man this week and he was telling me he was in great shape, would not need any little breaks, at the end of 2 hours, he went crawling back to his auto.

Being able to push down with one of the hands (throwing the ball off the roof) and allowing the Deltoid, Pects and Biceps to provide us with mass directed at the back of the ball and not using the hands to swing out, but maintain a lag until they whip out for you.

The width of the stance provides balance and speed. There is an exception.

Frosty:

Not to advoid your question, but in a upright 2 Plane Swing and a 1 Plane Swing, I teach throwing the large shoulder muscles into the back of the ball with rotation versus in the upright swing pulling up with the left shoulder before impact for the right handed golfer.

In a upright 2 Plane swing you can only rotate when you find your natural hand shake position in both the back and forward swing.

Everyone has a natural swing in them. A Natural Puller is not going to have the same address as a Natural Pusher and both of them are not going to have an address like the straight shooter, little adjusments must be made.

If a person drops the right foot back (rt. hander) so the right forearm and wrist comes back in front of the right toes if they have remained square.

A person will then see, they have a natural backswing for the upright swing. They will also have a natural forward swing that is the push. For some with the right body type the right foot only needs to come back a 1/4th of an inch or less, for others a little more dropping back like the FatBoy here.

Here is the average upright golfer that lacks flexibility, right hander:

He takes his square stance, swings the club back, the left hand and arm is slightly moving out in the 1st part of the backswing keeping the back of the left shoulder open or facing left, he then pulls the club to the inside like pulling the lawn mower rope bringing the left shoulder out and in the downswing if he turns the left shoulder back to the left, he comes over the top and if the ball is too far forward in the stance, he cuts across it, so he is taught to pull up on the left shoulder up in the downswing, because if the left shoulder is open at address, it will return to open when the hands are lowered and then that person must maintain a right wrist lag. The only true early rotation you can have in that swing is for the hips to rotate and move out of the way say the arms have a place to come down. Too Much Work/Mechanics and Thinking.

Go back to the right foot back and swing and you can not come over the top, nor can you turn the left shoulder around too much in the downswing.

What's the prescription guys to where you can just swing around in both directions? I have given you the back half of the swing. How do you throw the left punch backwards and the right punch forwards? Consult with each other.

Give us more Please!!!!

[Timothy Slaught]

Re: Question for the swing gurus out there.

Hey Frosty 1:

First of all, I hope you do not have to draw too many SNOWMEN on the scorecard (sorry but the door was wide open).

Two set-up positions in golf can be misleading because they give the illusion of power. That is the wide stance and reaching for the ball. Taken to the extremes, these can be swing killers.

As you can see by your success with the drills you mention, you can hit the ball fairly well with the feet together so that blows the myth of the wide stance. You should be shoulder width with the feet for the driver and progressively narrower for the irons in you normal playing set-up. The right foot back drill is fixing your path but is probably related to the stance as well.

As far as the weight shift and staying behind the ball, this is the most athletic and elusive part of the swing. This allows you to attack the ball with the proper angle and decent of the club shaft. I suggest you take a club or alignment aid and place it in line with your left foot (assuming you are a righty) perpendicular to the target line. Make sure you do not pass that line with your body as you hit balls. It is easiest to focus on your head staying behind that line. This would apply for all shots but you can really get the sensation with the longer clubs. With the shorter clubs you may feel more "on top" of the ball but you should be slightly behind it with these as well. a slightly tilted set-up (spine angle away from your target) helps this action.

Look at all the top players and they demostrate the "staying behind the ball" position at impact. They will look angled away from the target with their torso but the weight is shifting with the lower body. Again, at the crucial moment of impact, the head and torso are behind the ball but they fluidly move past impact to a full release. To reiterate, the sensation of this move is more demonstrative with the longer clubs especially on teed balls.

Best of luck.
Tim S.