The Secret by Michael Cortson

[bdbl]

Re: The Secret of Proper Impact

Fast, sweet and straight, I think you've cracked it Brian If it works for putting as well then the $150 is yours.

[BrianW]

Re: The Secret of Proper Impact

Fast, sweet and straight, I think you've cracked it Brian If it works for putting as well then the $150 is yours.

Putting, got that sussed: I learned all I know from Jimmy Hill

Line up and put it straight into the hole, if you pushed it then you should have aimed a little more left, a pull a little right. Easy game when you know how

[cayrbee]

Re: The Secret of Proper Impact

To all of you guys...

Teachers or pro will never tell you where the secret lies because it's a BIG business.
I discovered the secret. I am just a amateur player but i can tell you that everyone is amazed how consistent and powerful my shots are for a 145 lbs dude. I can hit my 8 iron 160 yrds

We all have different swings ; but all equal at I M P A C T

Ok let's assume that you can maintain lag all the way prior to impact...
Now listen carefully folks... the only way to deliver power, consistency and to have have those hands ROLL NATURALLY without any manipulation is to have tour TWO THUMBS (or knuckles )POINTING VERTICALLY TO THE GROUND AT IMPACT without lifting your arms. NO MORE FLIPPING . WELCOME TO BIOMECHANICAL PERFECTION. Try it and change your golf life for ever... This is brought to you free...

LUTZ

Two thumbs or knuckles pointing vertically to the ground. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ?

[BrianW]

Re: The Secret of Proper Impact

Two thumbs or knuckles pointing vertically to the ground. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ?

I assume he means that is the knuckles are pointing in an up and down plane then the clubface will be square. It's like saying that if your right palm or the back of your left hand is facing the target at impact you will hit the ball towards the target.

The issue here is how you get this to happen.

[rotator]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

Hi Brian,

I believe that LUTZ may be the golf messiah. Very appropriate that it's his first post and it's at Christmas. heh, heh. Hey, LUTZ, I'm just making fun. I think I know what you're getting at, and I'm a believer.

Brian, I think it's more than the back of hand being just square, that LUTZ is referring to. He mentions maintaining the lag to prior to impact, so I believe he is saying the arms should then naturally rotate, so at impact the trailing wrist is still bent and the leading wrist ends up at an exaggerated bowed (pronated) position. Classic Hogan! The big knuckles (not the finger joints) of the leading hand would then be pointing to the ground (viz, vertical).
LUTZ also refers to no flipping, which is a direct consequence of the pronated impact position at impact.

It's really what Schleeman was saying in the earlier post about the Hogan swing, in regard to rotation of the arms and the bowed wrist.

In Hogan's description of the left hand and wrist to John Schlee and even in his forward from the 1985 edition of 5 Lessons, Hogan talks about 'twisting' on the backswing or rolling the hands. Not an upcock or a backcock but a twist. There is a totally different feeling at the top of the backswing. If you 'twist' properly, the club will point to the left of your target at the top of your backswing (right handers).
In Hogan's own words, "I rolled the face of the club open away from the ball. That cupped my left wrist. Coming down, the face was moving so fast I couldn't turn it over and hook. I was rotating the club like a baseball bat, and the faster I could rotate it, the more distance I got. Training myself, I would roll the face open as fast and as far as I could. With this technique, I could hit the ball straight and farther."
What Hogan didn't go on to explain in that Forward was exactly what to do coming down. He told John that once you twisted going back, you have to 'untwist' coming down. This causes the left wrist to bow in the impact area. If you didn't 'untwist' properly, the ball would go right every time.

That's my take on it anyways.

BTW, I rememember John Schlee. He had a wonderfully sound golf swing. I believe he was compared as Hoganeque, so I now see why.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

Hi Ted,

Like you I like to experiment with the golf swing and try different styles and methods. After trying many so called secrets and swing styles I have found that the best way to play golf is to simplify your swing and focus on some fundamentals that create a stable platform with very repeatable solid ball striking. Following on from this a sound short game that relies on the same principles of repeatable sound ball striking is what we require to play good golf.

I will open some new threads to promote my ideas on this and hopefully create some interesting debates.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

Since I and others have brought up Hogan's name in this thread I thought I would throw this link into the mix. For what it is worth:

http://www.golfinternationalmag.co.uk/hogan/index.htm

GJS

[rotator]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

Hi Brian,

I have a simple golf swing now, which I have settled into, after many years of playing, experimenting and making errors. I've tried everything. I still get a kick when a new idea comes along, in equipment or in swing theory.

I learned club fitting and making years ago. I had a collection of over 100 VCR tapes with thousands of golf swings I taped and edited.

My swing has to be simple now, because I am up there in age and just want something efficient and consistent, no hassles.

In no particular order of importance, there are some basics, which I've settled into:-

- proper wrist cock. I used to forget to make the full wrist cock in my backswing, perhaps because I was thinking so much about extending the arc. In my case, I now cock early and get it out of the way, then in concert with a rotation of my forearms (much like how Schleeman described the fanning open of the clubface per Hogan), I turn my shoulders.

- proper weight shift and to get the upper body behind the ball on the backswing. For me, I had to get out of my reverse pivot tendencies, which was likely caused by my attempt to make a bigger shoulder turn. So now I preset the "away from the target" backward tilt of my upper body. Then the only thought I have, is to turn my shoulders and upper body together, so my leading shoulder lines up even with my rear foot. This makes the weight shift onto the back leg automatic, and creates such a coiled up tension behind the ball, that once you give your lower body a bit of a nudge, the weight shift forward becomes automatic. This allows my body, torso and arms to rotate powerfully and quickly to accelerate the club.

- maintaining the lag well into the downswing (Moe Norman said he felt as if the lag went well past the ball, which of couse it really doesn't), and the release happens naturally, and at impact the back wrist should still retain some bend and the leading wrist should be flat or bowed.

I don't have to think much about these actions. Some are "preset", and the others are, as a consequence of the preset actions.

Ted

[jambalaya]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

Hi Brian,

I believe that LUTZ may be the golf messiah. Very appropriate that it's his first post and it's at Christmas. heh, heh. Hey, LUTZ, I'm just making fun. I think I know what you're getting at, and I'm a believer.

Brian, I think it's more than the back of hand being just square, that LUTZ is referring to. He mentions maintaining the lag to prior to impact, so I believe he is saying the arms should then naturally rotate, so at impact the trailing wrist is still bent and the leading wrist ends up at an exaggerated bowed (pronated) position. Classic Hogan! The big knuckles (not the finger joints) of the leading hand would then be pointing to the ground (viz, vertical).
LUTZ also refers to no flipping, which is a direct consequence of the pronated impact position at impact.

It's really what Schleeman was saying in the earlier post about the Hogan swing, in regard to rotation of the arms and the bowed wrist.

In Hogan's description of the left hand and wrist to John Schlee and even in his forward from the 1985 edition of 5 Lessons, Hogan talks about 'twisting' on the backswing or rolling the hands. Not an upcock or a backcock but a twist. There is a totally different feeling at the top of the backswing. If you 'twist' properly, the club will point to the left of your target at the top of your backswing (right handers).
In Hogan's own words, "I rolled the face of the club open away from the ball. That cupped my left wrist. Coming down, the face was moving so fast I couldn't turn it over and hook. I was rotating the club like a baseball bat, and the faster I could rotate it, the more distance I got. Training myself, I would roll the face open as fast and as far as I could. With this technique, I could hit the ball straight and farther."
What Hogan didn't go on to explain in that Forward was exactly what to do coming down. He told John that once you twisted going back, you have to 'untwist' coming down. This causes the left wrist to bow in the impact area. If you didn't 'untwist' properly, the ball would go right every time.

That's my take on it anyways.

BTW, I rememember John Schlee. He had a wonderfully sound golf swing. I believe he was compared as Hoganeque, so I now see why.

Ted

I just cannot understand how your explanation of what lutz said lines up with this:

the only way to deliver power, consistency and to have have those hands ROLL NATURALLY without any manipulation is to have tour TWO THUMBS (or knuckles )POINTING VERTICALLY TO THE GROUND AT IMPACT without lifting your arms.

I cannot see how both thumbs or the knuckles thereof could be pointing vertically to the ground. Now I can see the thumbs pointing to the ground at impact but I don't know about vertically unless cock the wrist downward as you come into impact. And you sure are going to have to roll the arms to get the thumbs in that position. I think he is talking about something else but I don't see what.

[rotator]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

jambalaya,

We are expecting LUTZ to explain exactly what he meant, and short of that we are all speculating.

Regarding your statement "I cannot see how both thumbs or the knuckles thereof could be pointing vertically to the ground. Now I can see the thumbs pointing to the ground at impact but I don't know about vertically unless cock the wrist downward as you come into impact. And you sure are going to have to roll the arms to get the thumbs in that position. I think he is talking about something else but I don't see what.", I am not referring to the knuckles of the thumbs thereof, it's the big knuckles of the fingers, which I took care to clarify.

The reasons I have for making my observation is I believe what LUTZ is promoting is a pronated (bowed) left wrist position at impact, in which case the finger knuckles point downward (i.e. not facing the target line). I also do not read LUTZ necessarily means "vertically" as being 90 degrees perpendicular to the ground, but "in that vertical direction". Hogan had this pronounced pronation, which if you visualize it and try this position, the cupped fingers point to the sky and the knuckles underneath point to the ground. If you have a weaker grip, which Hogan went to, this will be even more so.

Also, as Schleeman points out the rotation of the arms (fanning open of the club) was a big thing in Hogan's swing. In answer to your question "And are (sic) you sure you (sic) are going to have to roll the arms to get to this position?", visualize and try this in slow motion. Rotate the arms open in the backswing, while cocking the wrists. While maintaining the lag as deep as possible, come down into impact by rotating the arms. I believe you will see that you come into this knuckles down pronated position.

I have to say that the observations made by Schleeman, and my interpretation of what I thought LUTZ was saying, clearly struck me as basic concepts I believe in and practice, and which have helped my game.

Ted

[BrianW]

Re: The Secret by Michael Cortson

I have to admit that some of my posts on this thread were very tongue in cheek. I have heard the term "Secret" in golf so many times and from so many places that the term raises a wry smile.

In common with some others I have read/studied/experimented with different swings, concepts and indeed secrets, I have also spent considerable time thinking through the physics and efficient mechanics of golf. I have come to understand that a great deal of what is commonly taught and believed is over complicated, confusing and a major contribution to confused golfers and their poor ball striking.

Thinking that a statement like 'Tour two thumbs' and 'knuckles pointing vertically to the ground' will change the golfing fortunes of the masses is unbelievable. Creating lag is also way down the list of priorities, lagging a poor swing just makes things worse. The MOST important component to playing good golf is maintaining a stable swing arc and plane for the club in use. When I have a little more time I will explain.