Synthesis

[BrianW]

Re: Synthesis

The simple fact of it is that to get maximum results you need to compress the core of the ball with the sweetspot of the club. If the ball is teed up you will be able to do that with a driver and 3 wood by delivering the sweetspot directly into the middle of the balls equator. If the ball is set very low or on the ground you would only get near to the sweetspot with these clubs using a descending blow.

What you do with your weight or spine is immaterial unless it allows you to make that contact. Additional swing speed will compress the ball more so that it flies further.

[bill reed]

Re: Synthesis

hi Brian
with the driver you hit the ball just below the equator, not much below but it always below the middle.
bill

[oldwease]

Re: Synthesis

Would that be due to the shorter shaft or higher loft?

Yes, it's really those factors.

The 3W gives you a slightly greater margin for error than the driver. I generally play the 3W marginally back from where I would play the driver off the tee, giving me that slight natural downward swing path into the ball. Hands slightly ahead, the 3W is also slightly delofted (bit like a long iron). Actually, that's pretty much the way I play the 3W from the fairway as well.....

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

What you do with your weight or spine is immaterial unless it allows you to make that contact.

Exactly! And looking at it from the flip side, what you do with your weight or spine is immaterial unless it prevents you from making that contact.

If something is preventing me from using the three skills, I have to work out what it is, or have an instructor who can do so. If I don't, I won't be able to use the three skills, and I won't know why.

In the present case, I'm hoping that this right knee movement is the last piece of the puzzle. In fact, I think this is a good time for another quick trip to the practice range...

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

Well, I went to the practice range. I brought a couple of irons, the driver, and the 3+w.

The irons were great. My ball-striking from yesterday continued; I didn't hit a bad shot. My swing felt simple and powerful and I nailed it, time after time.

The woods were rubbish. It didn't matter what I tried, in terms of weight, stance, tempo, visualization, mantra, or vitamins. I think I hit two or three satisfactory shots, out of a bucket of 50.

Back to the drawing board.

[bdbl]

Re: Synthesis

Well, I went to the practice range. I brought a couple of irons, the driver, and the 3+w.

The irons were great. My ball-striking from yesterday continued; I didn't hit a bad shot. My swing felt simple and powerful and I nailed it, time after time.

The woods were rubbish. It didn't matter what I tried, in terms of weight, stance, tempo, visualization, mantra, or vitamins. I think I hit two or three satisfactory shots, out of a bucket of 50.

Back to the drawing board.

Whoa.

Before you go back to the drawing board what was wrong with the woods?

I ask because I've been in the same space as you time and time again, most recently a week or so ago, as reflected in a despairing post on here.

Without going into details (because your problem may be different from mine) the solution was mind numbingly simple once my habitual error was identified.

I'm sure if you describe the results you are experiencing to some of the guys on here they could "talk" through some of the possibilities.

[oldwease]

Re: Synthesis

Todd, if you're hitting your long irons well, try hitting the 3W off the deck a few times. If you get comfortable with that, you're all set to hit it off a low tee.

[BrianW]

Re: Synthesis

Tod,

It's great that you have made improvement with your irons.

I suggested that you need to consider your driver and three wood differently than irons and I would just like to reinforce that statement.

Tee fairly high for your driver, particularly if it is a modern large headed one, you can tee for your 3 wood much lower, try around a half to three-quarters of an inch. Try the drill from 3SKs where you hit a rubber range tee from under a bucket handle, this will get you swinging with the desired shallow approach needed for these clubs.

When you hit a teed ball with them really focus on a nail tacked into the equator and laying on a horizontal plane. Work on coming in on an inside shallow arc that pummels the sweetspot into the balls core. I like to feel that image of the hammer swinging into the nail on a natural hammering path. I strongly suggest that you work on your hands and the clubhead level at impact and forget about your weight shift for now, if you achieve what I just suggested then that will take care of it's self. Think about the hand clapping exercise as well, it really brings home the correct action.

Good Driving!

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

Whoa.

Before you go back to the drawing board what was wrong with the woods?

GTO is the drawing board...

Hmm...let's see. I'm such a geek, I go to the practice range and take notes. There wasn't much of a pattern. I hit quite a few pop-up sky balls, also a number of topspin dive bombers. They were going all over the place, I have to say. I probably should have just stopped and given the rest of the bucket of balls away. There are times when this is the best course, and I think yesterday was one. Generally, I'd say I was striking the ball with anything but the sweet spot. Toe shots, heel shots, thin shots, and pop-ups. If there was any dominant pattern, it was the pop-ups; I probably hit more of them than anything. I guess I could have been swinging in too steep, after having it work so well with the irons. I just didn't seem to be able to stop doing it.

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

Try the drill from 3SKs where you hit a rubber range tee from under a bucket handle, this will get you swinging with the desired shallow approach needed for these clubs.

I have trouble with that drill, so that's certainly part of the problem. We don't have buckets like that, so I have to improvise something, but in any case I have trouble not hitting it.

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

Grip the club at waist high. Turn the shoulders back and then slightly place the right knee in, lower the club behind the ball.

Okay. By "place the right knee in", you mean cock it toward the ball a bit?

Your foot problem is going to show up in the woods. There are better approaches, but working with your feet and knee or knees is headed in the right direction.

What are the better approaches? I do a lot of experimentation with my feet, precisely because I can feel that tendency to get stuck flatfooted, and/or roll onto the outside edge of the right foot.

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

After you turn the shoulders back you have 2 choices.

Slide the knee back in a little or point it towards the ball.

I will experiment and report back.

[bdbl]

Re: Synthesis

GTO is the drawing board...

Hmm...let's see. I'm such a geek, I go to the practice range and take notes. There wasn't much of a pattern. I hit quite a few pop-up sky balls, also a number of topspin dive bombers. They were going all over the place, I have to say. I probably should have just stopped and given the rest of the bucket of balls away. There are times when this is the best course, and I think yesterday was one. Generally, I'd say I was striking the ball with anything but the sweet spot. Toe shots, heel shots, thin shots, and pop-ups. If there was any dominant pattern, it was the pop-ups; I probably hit more of them than anything. I guess I could have been swinging in too steep, after having it work so well with the irons. I just didn't seem to be able to stop doing it.

Todd

Excellent, exactly what was happening to me; good, in fact better than good, irons & utilities but woods as you describe. If I tried to fix the woods the others went.

So as one high cap, non-natural, slightly mechanical golfer to another here is what has worked (so far ) for me as prescribed by Dr. Brian and adapted by me [Brian, if you still have it -I've had a purge - would you mind forwarding our "annotated" PM conversation on this subject to Todd; he might find it helpful, if only by knowing there is someone else out there suffering in the same way!].

1 Re-establish the feel with the irons, get those great strikes going. Once you're swinging well just check and note your position at the top of a naturally full iron swing with a short iron IE don't deliberately shorten the swing.

2. Take your driver, swing to the top and compare positions. You might not be as bad as me but I was in near as damn it the same position - well off plane and far too steep. Note this position for for future avoidance.

3 [Assuming this is basically your problem] Take some swings to the top again, this time swing low and slow without letting the club raise up as high as before. That's it. Once you're are lower (shallower plane) at the top just complete the swing. At the moment I'm silently saying "low, slow, , GO" to my self to get the tempo and the transition pause we both like.

Looking back, I think I've also had too steep a swing [thanks all those pros who have taken my cash without mentioning it] but some times I'm capable of compensating for it, sometimes I'm not.

You still be left with some heel / toe problems (heel for me, I'm working on it) but they can be looked at once your are approaching the ball on a Skill 3 flight path.

Good Luck

[slater170]

Re: Synthesis

3SKs will not do much for my putting or course management so any improvement I find will have to be measured against improvements in ball striking. One immediate benefit has been a real feel-good factor when stood over the ball. The golfing season has almost come to an end in the UK, we have a few club internal comps to play, I do play all year round and hope to work hard over the winter in knocking some shots off my average.[/quote]



My exact feelings in a nutshell brian, though touch wood my putting has been solid lately

[ubizmo]

Re: Synthesis

2. Take your driver, swing to the top and compare positions. You might not be as bad as me but I was in near as damn it the same position - well off plane and far too steep. Note this position for for future avoidance.

3 [Assuming this is basically your problem] Take some swings to the top again, this time swing low and slow without letting the club raise up as high as before. That's it. Once you're are lower (shallower plane) at the top just complete the swing. At the moment I'm silently saying "low, slow, , GO" to my self to get the tempo and the transition pause we both like.

Looking back, I think I've also had too steep a swing [thanks all those pros who have taken my cash without mentioning it] but some times I'm capable of compensating for it, sometimes I'm not.

Okay, I have a few things to try here, but I suspect the diagnosis is correct, at least as far as swing plane is concerned. There are a couple of things to try to keep in mind. One is to avoid swaying when taking the club back low. There's a natural tendency to do this. The other is, of course, to bring the club back to the ball on a low angle of descent, and that's been causing the problems, apparently. As I think about it, this is probably why slowing the swing down can be helpful. The faster I try to swing, the more likely I am to come in to the ball on a steep angle. The intention to swing fast entails a need for more leverage, which translates into a contraction of the swing. This would also explain why I get better contact when I can discipline myself to swing easy.