Blading irons

[takinitdeep]

Watching someone blade or thin their irons is a good lesson for us all. An otherwise good swing will pick up something bad. I never put much thought into thinning until the other day at the range watching a very frustrated member.
I think the two main reasons for blading or thinning are:
1. change in spine angle causing the head and body to lift up prior to impact
2. bending of left arm prior to impact.
So this leads me to say, whatever you do right at address with spine angle and arms must be repeated at impact with no adjustments.

[ernie58]

Re: Blading irons

99.9% of the time I blade because I could not wait to see my purty shot go 100 yards down the fairway usually left to right, killing every worm along the way. Thankfully it doesn't happen that often. I guess that would come under changing the spine tilt.

[BrianW]

Re: Blading irons

TID, yes you are correct.

Ultimately thinning shots is due to hitting the upper part of the ball with the clubs leading edge. The resolution is to start hitting down into the back of the ball. Thinking laterally about this, if more golfers understood what this actually meant and focused their efforts on that task their spine angles etc should take care of themselves.

[jambalaya]

Re: Blading irons

TID, yes you are correct.

Ultimately thinning shots is due to hitting the upper part of the ball with the clubs leading edge. The resolution is to start hitting down into the back of the ball. Thinking laterally about this, if more golfers understood what this actually meant and focused their efforts on that task their spine angles etc should take care of themselves.

Can you see the back of the ball when you line up a pitching wedge shot? Ideally I would great to be able to see the very bottom of the ball as it lay on the ground and try to hit through the ball at that point. But I don't see that when I address the ball. If I could think of a good way of sighting where I want the club to go it would really help. I hit too far back of ball to many times.

[BrianW]

Re: Blading irons

Can you see the back of the ball when you line up a pitching wedge shot? Ideally I would great to be able to see the very bottom of the ball as it lay on the ground and try to hit through the ball at that point. But I don't see that when I address the ball. If I could think of a good way of sighting where I want the club to go it would really help. I hit too far back of ball to many times.

Yes, I can see the back of the ball. Ball centre of stance, the point I want to strike with a wedge is a line 20 deg above the equator that passes through the centre of the ball. I don't want to be a '3 skills' bore but just imagine a nail tacked into the ball pointing down at a 20 deg angle for wedges and 10 deg for longer irons and fairway woods, try hammering the nail down through the ball with your club and into the ground in front of the ball. This method has helped many people (including me) from this site improve ball striking.

[kbp]

Re: Blading irons

The problem is that it is physically impossible to actually strike the ball on a spot 20 degrees above it’s equator with a 47 degree pitching wedge. The tangent of the arc of decent can be 20 degrees near the back of the ball and/or the center of the clubface can be aimed to eventually pass through a point 20 degrees above the equator, but the club will first contact the ball at a spot about 47 degrees or so below the equator. A little higher if you deloft the club, but still well below the equator. With respect to jams question, it’s obviously near impossible to see this spot.

Nothing against 3sks here, really, but for some people the imagery doesn’t work as well because it's conflict with reality, especially with the wedges. Not everybody is wired the same. More power to those who it is helping. Try Brian’s imagery and see if it works for you.

[BrianW]

Re: Blading irons

The problem is that it is physically impossible to actually strike the ball on a spot 20 degrees above it’s equator with a 47 degree pitching wedge. The tangent of the arc of decent can be 20 degrees near the back of the ball and/or the center of the clubface can be aimed to eventually pass through a point 20 degrees above the equator, but the club will first contact the ball at a spot about 47 degrees or so below the equator. A little higher if you deloft the club, but still well below the equator. With respect to jams question, it’s obviously near impossible to see this spot.

Nothing against 3sks here, really, but for some people the imagery doesn’t work as well because it's conflict with reality, especially with the wedges. Not everybody is wired the same. More power to those who it is helping. Try Brian’s imagery and see if it works for you.

3 Skills actually suggests you imagine the clubface has no loft, that you are striking the ball with a plane level with the shaft. You must deloft the club so that hands are ahead of the clubface. I think it has worked for just about all that have tried it. The technicalities of where the club actually contacts the ball are not important, the great contact on the sweetspot and subsequent ball flight are what really matters.

Edit:

I would also suggest to Jamb that he should not be concentrating on the bottom of the ball at the back, aiming for this will cause you to swat the wrists and attempt to get under the ball which will create poor results.

[kbp]

Re: Blading irons

3 Skills actually suggests you imagine the clubface has no loft, that you are striking the ball with a plane level with the shaft. You must deloft the club so that hands are ahead of the clubface. I think it has worked for just about all that have tried it. The technicalities of where the club actually contacts the ball are not important, the great contact on the sweetspot and subsequent ball flight are what really matters.

Cool, we agree. It works for "just about all" but not absolutely all.

[jambalaya]

Re: Blading irons

3 Skills actually suggests you imagine the clubface has no loft, that you are striking the ball with a plane level with the shaft. You must deloft the club so that hands are ahead of the clubface. I think it has worked for just about all that have tried it. The technicalities of where the club actually contacts the ball are not important, the great contact on the sweetspot and subsequent ball flight are what really matters.

Edit:

I would also suggest to Jamb that he should not be concentrating on the bottom of the ball at the back, aiming for this will cause you to swat the wrists and attempt to get under the ball which will create poor results.

Thanks kbp. That is exactly what I was thinking, no way to see the spot at which you want the club to make contact with the ball. However, I might be able to use the imagery of a plane level with the shaft. It is worth a try. I know I am not contacting the ball first to many times, at least it seems that way.

[jambalaya]

Re: Blading irons

The problem is that it is physically impossible to actually strike the ball on a spot 20 degrees above it’s equator with a 47 degree pitching wedge. The tangent of the arc of decent can be 20 degrees near the back of the ball and/or the center of the clubface can be aimed to eventually pass through a point 20 degrees above the equator, but the club will first contact the ball at a spot about 47 degrees or so below the equator. A little higher if you deloft the club, but still well below the equator. With respect to jams question, it’s obviously near impossible to see this spot.

Nothing against 3sks here, really, but for some people the imagery doesn’t work as well because it's conflict with reality, especially with the wedges. Not everybody is wired the same. More power to those who it is helping. Try Brian’s imagery and see if it works for you.

What to you do kbp, just not think about it?

[takinitdeep]

Re: Blading irons

The point I was trying(apparently unsuccessfully)to make was that the poor chap at the range was topping and blading because he failed to keep the left arm straight at impact and was raising up destroying his spine angle.
I never volunteer advice but he asked me so I worked him turning around his lower base and keeping his left arm straight at impact-voila-nice crisp irons and solid straight drives.
He would have discovered the cure without me so all I did was save him some time and frustration. I am not a good teacher but after 45 years of playing,I know what works.
I thought this topic would be a good one for discussion because:
1. it involves lots of other swing mechanics
2. everyone has hit thins at one time or another but not many know why
3. if you can cure a thin shot, you begin to understand the swing.

[kbp]

Re: Blading irons

What to you do kbp, just not think about it?

Personally, I’m thinking/feeling more what my hands are up to on wedge shots. If I have a good image of where my hands should be going and what they should be doing for a particular pitch or chip, the other end of the club takes care of itself. But that’s me.....

I guess one thing, on certain high lofted wedge shots, I sometimes think of "wedging" the leading edge of the club right into the "seam" where the ball meets the turf. This encourages/requires a descending stroke with the hands forward but still in a position to use the clubs designed loft and bounce to the best advantage.

[BrianW]

Re: Blading irons

Cool, we agree. It works for "just about all" but not absolutely all.

That's right. If someone cannot or will not follow what the method teaches then they may not succeed.

Jamb, it's up to you, try it, don't try it, buy the book, don't buy the book! I have tried to help, ignore it if you wish.

[BrianW]

Re: Blading irons

When you factor in all the factors, club shaft lean and club face angle, does hitting at a 20 degree angle not have you lifting the arms up sooner then a 10 degree angle?

Establish what a twenty degree angle is on the ball and work with the forearms coming up and back down on that angle. Same with the 10 degree angle.

If you are blading, it can be traced back to what a person is doing with the foot work that causes lifting of the spine or collapse of the left side.

Cmays, the answer is yes. The 20 deg angle is used on shorter clubs and the 10 deg on longer ones. The natural steeper plane of the short iron will lift the club on a steeper swingpath, the longer ones on a more shallow one. 20deg/10deg.

[jambalaya]

Re: Blading irons

That's right. If someone cannot or will not follow what the method teaches then they may not succeed.

Jamb, it's up to you, try it, don't try it, buy the book, don't buy the book! I have tried to help, ignore it if you wish.

Does the nail come with the book?