The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

[Neil18]

Something bdbl has posted on the "4 magic moves" thread has inspired me to stir up an old subject that I haven't seen on the boards for a while. I am interested to see peoples up-to-date opinions and thoughts on their own progress in terms of ability versus confidence.

My personal goal is for me to be able to play in a manner that allows me to control the ball. Trajectory, height, curve, distance and stopping power all come into this. Ball control is what we're all after.

I know that, regardless of ones standard, if we can convince ourselves to "let go" and only think of the target, allowing our brain to do the best it can to get the ball there, then we have a better chance of success than thinking about the swing whilst we play.

However, whilst I have worked on the mental side of the game, I know in the back of my mind (even if I don't think about it throughout an entire round), regardless of how well I'm thinking, that my technique is flawed and will produce shots that I don't want more often than I would like.

I realise that perfection should not be shot at. I know that there will be shots that miss their target. However, I would contest that the best in the world are so good because they have learned, sooner or later, that it is possible to swing in such a way that suits them that they can be sure the swing they're going to put on the ball is going to produce the desired shot. That's confidence. If it misses it misses. Mistakes at the top level mostly come from wrong clubbing or wrong shot selection, but they rarely set up to play a draw then double-cross themselves and send it 40 yards right of target with a thinned fade. I could accept setting up to play a low draw, playing it as a low draw, and missing because it wasn't the shot to play. I could accept it also if it didn't draw but found the right side of the green instead. It's better than diving into the cabbage with machete in hand.

Having worked on my mental game enough to accept missing 12 greens by 15 yards, I'm pretty sure I can make the step to accepting 6 misses by 5 yards!

I have learned that my true confidence comes from what I know my ability to be. I can prepare myself mentally for a round with my current ability and accept what comes my way, but on the practice ground (and increasingly more on the course) I have had a taste of what is possible. I have a little way to go in terms of technique, but I am in a very exciting place right now as I can taste the finish line in terms of getting a technique that is simple, built to last and repetitive, and that can allow me to hit all the shots I would require in any situation.

I would also stress at this point that I have been lucky enough (after going through a few) to find a coach of a very high standard whose method suits me, but more importantly he is someone I trust because he is a professionals coach. More importantly still, I get on very well with him. I would recommend to anyone that a good coach is probably the most important part of learning a good swinging action, and that once found, one must stick to it religiously. The minute ones belief in the system you are using falters, and your doubts cannot be aleviated by communication with your coach (however small................the doubts that is, I have not quarrel with golf coaches who are vertically challenged!) it is as good as dead. The slightest doubts are sufficient to impare performance.

When the day comes that I am hitting the shots I want, and the camera and coach tells me the technique is right where it should be, I will experience confidence on a different level. I won't have to spend too much effort thinking about my technique and mental approach in order to "kid myself" into hitting a good shot. I'll still be thinking about where I want my ball to go, but that sub-concious worry of whether or not I'm going to carve another one will be gone. Not necessarily forever, that would be naive. If I thought it would be gone forever, that would essentially mean that on some level I don't expect to hit any bad shots at all, which is the perfection that is so dangerous.

I'm not after perfection. I'm after ball control.

As the majority of the good folks on here are interested in how to improve their mechanics, I would say that you need to stick with it. Don't give up. The ball striking you want is out there. There are stages of development in this field that I have been through.

I must say that it all started with my coach. Within 20 minutes of my first visit to him 2 years ago he had me hitting the ball like I never knew I could. Penetrating, solid, straight (multiple times in a row) and effortless.

Needless to say that I came away from my first session with him full of beans and confidence. And then the rot happened. It took about a week. All of a sudden my old habits crept back in a little and, even though my playing partners would compliment my ball striking, it just wasn't the same. I knew I could hit it better. That's the niggling thought I'm talking about. When you can't hit it better, you'll know.

2 Years later (and having endured multiple cycles of; see my coach > "there it is" > play with it > lose it > get frustrated > see my coach etc etc) I'm very close. Every time I go to see my coach, the technique stays a little longer. I'm up to about 6 weeks worth of lovely ball striking before it starts to "go south" now. The other benefit is that the more I see my coach, the more I learn about what I'm doing and the less often I have to see him. I would also strongly recommend video-taping a session where your coach goes through all the basics he wants you to do and all the swing movements and feelings on how to do it. It's invaluable. It helps cut through the BS and breeds confidence in what you're striving for.

Confidence in my coach = confidence in the method.

Confidence in the method = confidence in my ability.

Confidence in my ability = confident golf.

[oldwease]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

I suppose what you're really talking about is achieving a level of consistency that brings its own confidence. I suppose that’s self-evident to a degree; if I know how the ball will come off the club, a lot of the problem’s solved. But, the real issue is, how do you get to that point?

I’m not convinced with the idea that all you have to do is ‘see the shot’ and it’ll happen. Pros might be able to do this simply because their swing repeats. I’m a pretty low handicap golfer and have always been able to hit a ball (may not always go where it’s intended but I don’t get into the situation where I simply can’t hit it at all). That said, even when I’m playing pretty regularly, I know my swing doesn’t repeat identically. Even though each swing is basically the same, I’m aware of very minor differences; maybe a slightly different feel at release or I may notice something a little different about the finish, balance, and so on. All of these shots may be fine but I know the swing hasn’t repeated in a precise manner. When I look at the really good players it seems to me that they do repeat more exactly. I’m not talking here of the absolute greats but, I’ve see very good club pros or minor tour pros who’s swings, to my eye, look almost identical time after time.

So, to me, that’s a key point. I cannot abandon all swing thoughts because I need the building blocks. That said, I only ever have one swing thought. Usually, this is mechanical, but it may be no more than envisaging the club face square on the ball at impact. If you take all of this and then allow for the fact that I don’t necessarily play every day or even every week, then you get the added complication of returning to the game slightly out of sync anyway.

So I think that confidence can only really come from the way you are striking the ball. If, basically, you have cause and effect, with the ball doing what you expect it to, more or less, then you can be confident standing over a shot. I don’t think you can really create this the other way around, i.e. mentally overcome a poor swing. It’s obviously the ability to repeat a swing which counts. That’s certainly what I’m striving for. The rest flows from there.

[BrianW]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Two very good posts there guys, good interesting reading and a lot to think about.

Predictable ball flight is what we strive for and this can only be produced by a sound, repeatable golf swing. Inconsistency is the bane to Golfers no matter what level they play, it's just a matter of the relevant tolerances. I guess Tiger Woods is working to become more consistent even though the likes of us would sell our souls for what he has now.

I would suggest that on the day we should be playing with what we have and not what may be possible at our very best

[wicket94]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Interesting thoughts.

Confidence in your ability has to be key to a consistent golf game. In the summer, even though I wasn't striking the ball brilliantly I knew the result of the shot would be ok, not great but Ok. I knew I could not hit the hero shots (that will come/has come on occasions) so I didn't attempt them. I played my game.

This got me to a semi final at our club foursomes only for one bad shot eminating from a case of nerves I think completly and utterly robbing me of confidence and the ability to get anything remotely like a swing. (Think tops, shanks and slices)

I think I play a reasonable game. I know I have a long way to go. I can stay as I am and be confident I will get round, play nicely and have a score - there is a level I can play to.

I also know that if I improve my technique to one I can repeat under pressure and my nerves are alight (I think that's the real key) I can improve and go onto another level. My confidence in my swing and my swing changes will tell me what I can and can't acheive.

I think confidence comes from knowing you can do something. Different from thinking you can acheive something if (big if) you get everything right.

As you say, the pros will and do make mistakes, they will mishit shots (I remember seeing Ian Poulter shank a tee shot) but generally their mishits are millimeters in execution. High expectations. Their technique is repeatable to them but I reckon there is no way any one player, regardless of their skill level can repreat a swing exactly as before but the pros have confidence in what they know they can acheive and what they do.

What comes first confidence or ability? I reckon ability = confidence (whatever level that ability is)

[LowPost42]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

I've noticed that very good players - not even PGA, but Euro and Nationwide tours - talk about and seem to have a consistent miss. Their swings are generally so repeatable that their miss becomes a timing issue.

Now, I like to draw parallels between what I see on the basketball court and what I see in golf (mostly because at this point, my basketball experience far outweighs my golf experience).

The title pretty much says it all - and I'd have to say that time and again, the ability comes before the confidence. We don't trust ourselves until we've done it enough/seen ourselves do it enough that we believe we can. Therefore, we're actually very capable long before we believe it (ability before trust).

We often point to the golfer that's striping it on the range with his coach, then heads to the first tee only to revert to his snake-killing action. Why? Because he doesn't trust that he'll be able to swing like he did on the range, and he's playing with what he knows. Golfers are often ridiculed for not being able to bring their range game to the course. So we devise method after method of trying to bring the 'range game' to the course. The real answer? It's mental. There's no consequence to the shot on the range. Shank it, and you get another kick at the cat - same club, same target, same angle. The same result on the course and it's a totally different ballgame. So either you learn to bring the pressure of the course to the range, or bring the relaxed mental state of the range to the course.

Now, what do we see in basketball? Players drill and drill proper fundamentals, hitting positions while trying to put the ball in the hoop. But when they get on the court, they go right back to what feels right - what they know, and perhaps more importantly, what they know works. While coaches shake their heads at the guy who knocks it down repeatedly but launches the ball from his shoulder, or behind his head. But he still drills the shot that comes from in front of his body. One day, that's what feels right - and that's what they know, and what they know works. 'All of a sudden' the shot is taken from in front of the body, never to return to the shoulder. One player like this took 2 years to get the ball off his shoulder to in front of his body. How many golfers give themselves that chance - 2 years to move to a fundamentally sound swing; through drilling properly?

Golf is also the most unforgiving sport in the world, with the most ridiculous expectations.

Using some D1 NCAA records here's what we get:

Football QB Passing (attempts/completion/percentage): 75/44/59%
Basketball Field goals (attempts/made/percentage): 277/186/67%
Hockey Save percentage (shots allowed/total shots/percentage): 79/1059/93%
Baseball Batting average (at bats/hits/percentage): 209/95/45%

Interestingly, there's no golf stats for D1 NCAA golf.

The top GIR man on the Nationwide is at 78%
Scoring average is 69.67 - a little over 3% better than par.
Top fairways hit is 79%

And while these are all the 'best of the best' at their level, you could argue there's still room for improvement. QB's could complete more passes. Ball players could hit more. Goalies could make more stops, and golfers could hit more fairways and greens.

The interesting thing to note is how we respond at the amateur level to these situations.

A recreational player misses a jumper, strikes out, or allows a goal, and it's no big deal. They'll get another chance to shoot, another at bat, and face other shots. But, have them hit a horrible shot in golf (about the worst thing you can do), and it's the 'first car on the train', or 'the wheels are coming off' or 'I was waiting for this to happen'. A basketball coach said to me once: Good shooters are surprised when it goes in. Great shooters are surprised when it doesn't. He went on to mention that the biggest difference between good and great was the expectation of the outcome - their mental perception of their ability to make the shot.

Perhaps we could argue that, since we only get one crack at executing the shot at hand, we need to liken the cross-sport reference to: The QB needs to make this pass or they lose; the baseball player not only needs to hit the ball, he needs to find the gap in right center to advance the scoring run; the basketball player needs to hit the freethrow to send the game to OT; and the goalie is in a shootout and needs to make the save. Now we have one time pressure.

All these players have faith in their ability, but are generally unfazed when something goes wrong. Their confidence in their ability is not diminished. The idea of 'perfection' never enters their mind - save for golfers.

So Neil is very onto something that allows perfection to be removed from the equation. To allow the idea that 'if you miss this one, you get another kick at the cat' to become the guiding principle. You've gotta play the game with what you've got, and drill while practicing to get where you want to be.

[Neil18]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

I've noticed that very good players - not even PGA, but Euro and Nationwide tours - talk about and seem to have a consistent miss. Their swings are generally so repeatable that their miss becomes a timing issue.

Now, I like to draw parallels between what I see on the basketball court and what I see in golf (mostly because at this point, my basketball experience far outweighs my golf experience).

The title pretty much says it all - and I'd have to say that time and again, the ability comes before the confidence. We don't trust ourselves until we've done it enough/seen ourselves do it enough that we believe we can. Therefore, we're actually very capable long before we believe it (ability before trust).

We often point to the golfer that's striping it on the range with his coach, then heads to the first tee only to revert to his snake-killing action. Why? Because he doesn't trust that he'll be able to swing like he did on the range, and he's playing with what he knows. Golfers are often ridiculed for not being able to bring their range game to the course. So we devise method after method of trying to bring the 'range game' to the course. The real answer? It's mental. There's no consequence to the shot on the range. Shank it, and you get another kick at the cat - same club, same target, same angle. The same result on the course and it's a totally different ballgame. So either you learn to bring the pressure of the course to the range, or bring the relaxed mental state of the range to the course.

Now, what do we see in basketball? Players drill and drill proper fundamentals, hitting positions while trying to put the ball in the hoop. But when they get on the court, they go right back to what feels right - what they know, and perhaps more importantly, what they know works. While coaches shake their heads at the guy who knocks it down repeatedly but launches the ball from his shoulder, or behind his head. But he still drills the shot that comes from in front of his body. One day, that's what feels right - and that's what they know, and what they know works. 'All of a sudden' the shot is taken from in front of the body, never to return to the shoulder. One player like this took 2 years to get the ball off his shoulder to in front of his body. How many golfers give themselves that chance - 2 years to move to a fundamentally sound swing; through drilling properly?

Golf is also the most unforgiving sport in the world, with the most ridiculous expectations.

Using some D1 NCAA records here's what we get:

Football QB Passing (attempts/completion/percentage): 75/44/59%
Basketball Field goals (attempts/made/percentage): 277/186/67%
Hockey Save percentage (shots allowed/total shots/percentage): 79/1059/93%
Baseball Batting average (at bats/hits/percentage): 209/95/45%

Interestingly, there's no golf stats for D1 NCAA golf.

The top GIR man on the Nationwide is at 78%
Scoring average is 69.67 - a little over 3% better than par.
Top fairways hit is 79%

And while these are all the 'best of the best' at their level, you could argue there's still room for improvement. QB's could complete more passes. Ball players could hit more. Goalies could make more stops, and golfers could hit more fairways and greens.

The interesting thing to note is how we respond at the amateur level to these situations.

A recreational player misses a jumper, strikes out, or allows a goal, and it's no big deal. They'll get another chance to shoot, another at bat, and face other shots. But, have them hit a horrible shot in golf (about the worst thing you can do), and it's the 'first car on the train', or 'the wheels are coming off' or 'I was waiting for this to happen'. A basketball coach said to me once: Good shooters are surprised when it goes in. Great shooters are surprised when it doesn't. He went on to mention that the biggest difference between good and great was the expectation of the outcome - their mental perception of their ability to make the shot.

Perhaps we could argue that, since we only get one crack at executing the shot at hand, we need to liken the cross-sport reference to: The QB needs to make this pass or they lose; the baseball player not only needs to hit the ball, he needs to find the gap in right center to advance the scoring run; the basketball player needs to hit the freethrow to send the game to OT; and the goalie is in a shootout and needs to make the save. Now we have one time pressure.

All these players have faith in their ability, but are generally unfazed when something goes wrong. Their confidence in their ability is not diminished. The idea of 'perfection' never enters their mind - save for golfers.

So Neil is very onto something that allows perfection to be removed from the equation. To allow the idea that 'if you miss this one, you get another kick at the cat' to become the guiding principle. You've gotta play the game with what you've got, and drill while practicing to get where you want to be.

Marvelous post.

[LowPost42]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Marvelous post.

Thanks Neil. One point I forgot to mention in my ramble-a-thon was that in the other sports I referenced, player make a play in the moment, then leave it (sure, they'll recall it later, but in the flow of things, it's gone).

Just because I knock one down from 3 point land doesn't mean that I expect to every single time I launch one from downtown. Or just because I hit a homerun on my first swing doesn't mean I expect to hit one out every time I swing! Every shot is not a goal, every race is not a new world record, or even a new personal best - even though we've done it before. I mean, sure, the next time down the floor I may try another from the 3 point line, especially if I'm open. But if it doesn't go in, it simply doesn't go in. Do I stop trying 3 pointers because I missed? No. Do I start analysing my body movement and my breathing and my timing and which finger touched the ball last and did I really jump with two feet or did I only jump off one... No.

But golf again is a magnificent creature. We pound one down the middle - and far. What do we expect? That our next shot is going to be a pin buster, and our next drive is going to be another fairway finder. But it won't just find the fairway, it'll be pounded far, just like our first one, right? If it's not, we immediately start looking for the cure, or the reason why, or something to fix on the next shot. While that's a great thing to do in practice - while you're drilling - on the course you have to go with what you know.

As golfers, for some strange reason we're always hunting for a 54. From someone who's only played 3 time to Tiger Woods - we're looking to birdie every hole. Even if you play your game more conservatively, for some reason we all figure that 54 is totally and completely possible. In no other sport do you find this mentality.

Nobody has a shot to goal ratio of 1:1. Nobody bats 1.000. Nobody completes every pass, wins every race, or performs the same time and time again. A player lights it up with 71 points. Does he figure he's going to do it again tomorrow? No. He enjoys having a great night of scoring. In golf, if you break the next scoring plateau, you're disappointed when you don't do it the next time out. I'm just as guilty as the next guy.

This year for club champ, I played in the group with the eventual winner; a 2 day stroke play event. He shot 1 over for the two days. I'm just as long as him. I scored 39 over. I shot a personal best on the second day (and what better time?) But like every other golfer, I went out two days later and barely broke 100. Totally frustrated with my game, I went right out the next day, determined to 'fix' my game and get back to the 80's. Nope. Didn't break 100.

The ironic thing was, before club champ, I spoke with my coach about fixing what's broken. He mentioned that when playing - tournament or otherwise - when you're looking to keep score, the if it's broke, either don't use it, or know it's broken and play for it. My problem was a 'where'd that come from' slice with the driver. So, my options were either don't hit driver, or play driver up the left side, waiting for a slice to come. As we all know, though, the slice won't show when we play for it. It's only when we've been pulling the ball AND aiming left that we setup in the middle and promptly slice it. So I played it all weekend. Missed a lot of fairways left. But the one or two times it did bend, it was in the fairway. Strangely enough, after club champ, I embarked on a journey to 'force' myself to not slice. No wonder I couldn't score the next two times out. The slice fix is for the range, not the "Play"ground.

[Neil18]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Thanks Neil. One point I forgot to mention in my ramble-a-thon was that in the other sports I referenced, player make a play in the moment, then leave it (sure, they'll recall it later, but in the flow of things, it's gone).

Just because I knock one down from 3 point land doesn't mean that I expect to every single time I launch one from downtown. Or just because I hit a homerun on my first swing doesn't mean I expect to hit one out every time I swing! Every shot is not a goal, every race is not a new world record, or even a new personal best - even though we've done it before. I mean, sure, the next time down the floor I may try another from the 3 point line, especially if I'm open. But if it doesn't go in, it simply doesn't go in. Do I stop trying 3 pointers because I missed? No. Do I start analysing my body movement and my breathing and my timing and which finger touched the ball last and did I really jump with two feet or did I only jump off one... No.

But golf again is a magnificent creature. We pound one down the middle - and far. What do we expect? That our next shot is going to be a pin buster, and our next drive is going to be another fairway finder. But it won't just find the fairway, it'll be pounded far, just like our first one, right? If it's not, we immediately start looking for the cure, or the reason why, or something to fix on the next shot. While that's a great thing to do in practice - while you're drilling - on the course you have to go with what you know.

As golfers, for some strange reason we're always hunting for a 54. From someone who's only played 3 time to Tiger Woods - we're looking to birdie every hole. Even if you play your game more conservatively, for some reason we all figure that 54 is totally and completely possible. In no other sport do you find this mentality.

Nobody has a shot to goal ratio of 1:1. Nobody bats 1.000. Nobody completes every pass, wins every race, or performs the same time and time again. A player lights it up with 71 points. Does he figure he's going to do it again tomorrow? No. He enjoys having a great night of scoring. In golf, if you break the next scoring plateau, you're disappointed when you don't do it the next time out. I'm just as guilty as the next guy.

This year for club champ, I played in the group with the eventual winner; a 2 day stroke play event. He shot 1 over for the two days. I'm just as long as him. I scored 39 over. I shot a personal best on the second day (and what better time?) But like every other golfer, I went out two days later and barely broke 100. Totally frustrated with my game, I went right out the next day, determined to 'fix' my game and get back to the 80's. Nope. Didn't break 100.

The ironic thing was, before club champ, I spoke with my coach about fixing what's broken. He mentioned that when playing - tournament or otherwise - when you're looking to keep score, the if it's broke, either don't use it, or know it's broken and play for it. My problem was a 'where'd that come from' slice with the driver. So, my options were either don't hit driver, or play driver up the left side, waiting for a slice to come. As we all know, though, the slice won't show when we play for it. It's only when we've been pulling the ball AND aiming left that we setup in the middle and promptly slice it. So I played it all weekend. Missed a lot of fairways left. But the one or two times it did bend, it was in the fairway. Strangely enough, after club champ, I embarked on a journey to 'force' myself to not slice. No wonder I couldn't score the next two times out. The slice fix is for the range, not the "Play"ground.

More good points Lowpost.

I think there are many reasons why we trouble ourselves with technique more in this game than any other.

Firstly, and most importantly, it is in absolutely no way a reaction sport.

There's only one other ball sport that I can think of where you're not in direct contact with the ball and have to make it move from a stationary position, and that's snooker (or pool for you American chaps!).

Every other mainstream sport played in developed society sees the ball moving around a lot before the player comes in to contact with it. Two things help technique. One is the action of the already moving ball basically dictating what you can do with it and not having time to think about it. The other involves the sports that allow the human body itself to come into contact with the ball. Tactile contact with the object we're trying to move is invaluable when us humans are carrying out tasks. The only feedback we get in golf is through the shaft we're holding. Very odd, and certainly not natural.

So, in golf, not only do we have to make this rediculously small ball move a very long way in as few hits as possible, but also we have to do it with long thin metal sticks with varying curvy bits on the end. It is precisely for these reasons that golf technique is as scrutinised as it is. The only extraneous friends us golfers have out there to help our excuses for bad play are the bad bounces or the unexpected gusts of wind. Both are more rare than we would all care to admit. Aside from that, whatever happens to the ball was as a result of whatever we did to it with our curvy sticks. You can't blame a sliced tee shot on the already present side-spin. Nor can we claim we didn't hit the ball because it bounced too high. In a game that takes an average of 4 hours during which only 45 minutes is spent playing the shots, this all comes together to form what can only be described as slightly short of torture.

We all know that this is a game of small differences. Winning or losing by one shot out of 280 over 4 days. A putt lipping out because it was rolled a milliscule too firm. Pushing a shot OB because we just couldn't quite square the clubface in time. There are so many things in this game to dent ones confidence.

Because of that, for me, my confidence comes from two things:

1) knowing my technique is good. There have been many times over the past couple of years when I thought I "had it". In actual fact (and I was too naive to realise it at the time) I played damn well playing with what I had and accepted it for that moment, but knew on some level that I was still not near my potential. Although I knew my technique was good, it was good (as others have stated on here) to get me to a point. When I played well, I played to or just under my handicap.

But I wanna shoot 65.

2) At the same time as working on technique, I (as I'm sure do many others) have been brainwashing myself into thinking well. Thinking well alongside poor technique is a lot harder than thinking well when the technique's in the bag. Thinking well just means thinking about the right things at the right time. If I've got too many of the wrong things flying through my brain because I am unsure of my technique, it makes the right things a distant fuzz. In what other sport can we go to get professional help and actually pay for the pleasure of expecting to get worse before we get better?

The more I learn about this game, the more I am thinking that the old adage of "there's no such thing as the perfect golf swing" is rather misleading.

There are, in fact, two perfect golf swings. One for a flatter plane, and one for a more upright plane.

That's it.

The key is deciphering which grip, stance, takeaway, backswing and downswing applies to whichever of the two swing types you're most "comfortable" with. Ironic use of the word "comfortable".

I think "there's no such thing as a perfect golf swing" only adds to the frustration and confusion. If there isn't an ideal way of doing it, why are we all here and what are we all searching for? If I were being a little more harsh, those that live by the "there's no such thing as a perfect golf swing" must rejoice because they have found a game where there is already a wonderful one-liner that comes with the package that encompasses all the reasons we can't do it, and accept it.

I'm not saying this is wrong. If you're happy to shoot 75, 85, or 105 then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and you can go out and merrily play your game and go home for tea. Heck, I'll play with you. I'll play with anyone. But there isn't one member out of almost 31,000 signed up to this site that thinks that way. The players who are happy with their game don't see pro's and don't come on forums to get tips.

But we're all enthusiasts. We're all here to get better. Forums like this wouldn't exist, and golf coaching wouldn't be the lucrative profession it is if we were all genuinely happy with what we have, and went about our day.

It is precisely because the game is so difficult to learn that we all come back. When we look forward to our end of days we want the possibility of looking back, even if it's on just the one occasion, and saying to ourselves "on one day, one magnificent afternoon, I mastered the most difficult sport on the planet".

To me, that's worth it. Even if it is only a sport.

[bulldog2k]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Firstly, and most importantly, it is in absolutely no way a reaction sport.

There's only one other ball sport that I can think of where you're not in direct contact with the ball and have to make it move from a stationary position, and that's snooker (or pool for you American chaps!).

Croquet. I used to be a 9 HC at Association Croquet, back in the day...

[Neil18]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Croquet eh?

Never tried it properly! Didn't know it was still played today in an official format! All I think when I hear Croquet is period dramas and having a go at it in the dark at 1am whilst hammered at Butlins!

I'll give you that one then. Adding Croquet to the list of 2 sports as we speak!

If this wasn't a golf thread I'd ask you how handicaps work in Croquet, and what the actual aim of the game was, scoring etc! I have absolutely no idea!

Feel free to PM me!

[BrianW]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Picking up on the point of the stationary ball in Golf.

3 Skills has a nice article that relates to the stationary ball and the fact that there is plenty of time for the left side of the brain to become analytical resulting in complex swing thoughts. In many other ball sports the ball is moving at impact which does not allow time for this to happen.

The right side of the brain is better for creativity, intuitiveness, imagery and athletic ability. In Golf (And Croquet) the right side of the brain can be often quiet as the analytical left side dominates our thinking. The book suggests that most of the best players are good at creating imagery and seeing the shot they wish to play in their mind. The imagery in 3 Skills, driving nails, visualizing the ball flight etc also allows the right side of the brain to be influential such that the left side can be reconciled. The ideal situation is when the two hemispheres operate together harmoniously and in tandem.

[Neil18]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

My brother said something about the left side and right side of the brain recently. He saw a tv show on how the two sides operate and how the right side operates pretty much without our effort and knowledge.

The right side is responsible for all the things we do as a reflex reaction and also all the things that make us say to ourselves "how did I do that?".

In a sense, the unconcious processes at work in the right side cause the analytical left side to question it as, essentially, some of the things the left side makes us do are not logical or rational . It'll take some training to switch off the left and turn total control over to the right and trust it.

[BrianW]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

My brother said something about the left side and right side of the brain recently. He saw a tv show on how the two sides operate and how the right side operates pretty much without our effort and knowledge.

The right side is responsible for all the things we do as a reflex reaction and also all the things that make us say to ourselves "how did I do that?".

In a sense, the unconcious processes at work in the right side cause the analytical left side to question it as, essentially, some of the things the left side makes us do are not logical or rational . It'll take some training to switch off the left and turn total control over to the right and trust it.

Neil,

The books point is that the right side should play it's part rather than take over control

[Neil18]

Re: The Chicken, The Egg, The Confidence and The Ability

Ah, ok I get it.