Clubhead Speed ???

[killer]

Hi all,

well well well, ive had enough really fed up.

As much as I try, and Ive been trying for some time now, just cannot seem to generate any real club head speed. whenever I swing the club it just feels laboured and the only way I ever seen to feel any increase in club head speed is if I allow my wrists at impact to feel really loose. still this fails to generate much more distance 5yards at most.

I was down to 6 early last year, but unfortunatly not played well all year. Iam currently up to 7.3 and rising fast. Iam not blaming my increased handicap on lack of club head speed, this is due to a consistent lack of consitency.
What iam looking for here is any feedback from you fellow golfers, I need to know what you feel, and when in the swing you start to feel club hesd speed generating.
I hear they say the swing should feel as though the but of the club is being pulled towards the ball on the down swing, this does nothing for me in terms of club head speed.
Ive tried rolling my wrists and whipping the club head through on impact still no good.
worked on the feeling of lag which feels good for timing the club.But again no improvment to club head speed.

Distance with clubs

• Driver 210yards
• 3 Wood 180
• 4 i 160
• 6 i 145
• 7 i 135/140
• 8 i 130
• 9 i 120/125
• Wedge 110

Rubbish I feel like taking up fishing at this moment in time, so frustrated.

Please Help!!!!
Killer.

[LowPost42]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

Please, sir, I need more info.

Those distances may be just fine if your swing speed dictates. As I just posted in another thread, there's more to distance than clubhead speed alone.

If you're youngish and relatively athletic, those are certainly 'arms driven' numbers - but if you're also a single digit capper, I've gotta believe you've got a pretty repeatable swing.

A photo of yourself at impact would help - it'll tell a LOT.

[BrianW]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

As Lowpost says you must have a fairly repeatable swing as a cat 1 golfer. Your distances fall into a nice range per club even if you are not satisfied with them.

Maybe you do have a slower tempo and these distances reflect that, be careful of forcing it faster though as most of us have a natural rhythm that is coupled to our personality.

I have increased my distances of late by making better ball contact, this has allowed me to go down by one club in general, sometimes two. I used the 3 skills system which gave me the knowledge and subsequent ability to hit the sweetspot on every club most of the time and make great ball compression.

May be worth considering for the small outlay.

[Robert O' Keeffe]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

Hi Killer,

For what its worth, heres my opinion. To me, clubhead speed is generated on the downswing. Therefore there should be no great urgency in getting the club to the top. What I try to feel in my swing is a slow tempo combined with a good solid shoulder turn. If this is good, then the club head speed will take care of itself in the downswing. I find that this is true foe me anyway. Of course we have to have the other basics right, i.e. grip, ball position etc. Thinking too much about individual issues only causes a break down in the full swing. Another problem may be that you are too "handsy" and not creating enough torque with a lack of shoulder turn. If you strike the ball solid with good foundation then I would suggest you should get average distance from each iron. I hope this helps in some way.

Robert

[wicket94]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

Your after the same goal as me. One of the reasons for joining this forum. There are plenty of people with good advice here.

Post a video clip (via Youtube) and or some photos of your swing. To me the video is one of the greatest learning aids. Seeing your swing can reveal so much, especially in the crucial impact area.

As others have said - your a single figure handicaper so your game is obviously to a good standard - better than mine - just be careful of the tense effort swing. look at your wrist cock and wrist position at the impact position. Are you retaining the wrist a=cock for as long as necessary?

Worth a read: Discover The New Golf Swing And Master Any Putting Green not necessarily to implement but the explanation of clubhead speed is well worth the read - in the impact area. Also threads on here around the right hand drill. 3 skills will also be mentioned but know litle about that.

[jamesh]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

Hi all,

well well well, ive had enough really fed up.

As much as I try, and Ive been trying for some time now, just cannot seem to generate any real club head speed. whenever I swing the club it just feels laboured and the only way I ever seen to feel any increase in club head speed is if I allow my wrists at impact to feel really loose. still this fails to generate much more distance 5yards at most.

I was down to 6 early last year, but unfortunatly not played well all year. Iam currently up to 7.3 and rising fast. Iam not blaming my increased handicap on lack of club head speed, this is due to a consistent lack of consitency.
What iam looking for here is any feedback from you fellow golfers, I need to know what you feel, and when in the swing you start to feel club hesd speed generating.
I hear they say the swing should feel as though the but of the club is being pulled towards the ball on the down swing, this does nothing for me in terms of club head speed.
Ive tried rolling my wrists and whipping the club head through on impact still no good.
worked on the feeling of lag which feels good for timing the club.But again no improvment to club head speed.

Distance with clubs

• Driver 210yards
• 3 Wood 180
• 4 i 160
• 6 i 145
• 7 i 135/140
• 8 i 130
• 9 i 120/125
• Wedge 110

Rubbish I feel like taking up fishing at this moment in time, so frustrated.

Please Help!!!!
Killer.

Killer first congratulations on your handicap. I have good distance, and a high handicap. I would trade places with you any day. I can reach the par fives in two, and still walk away with eight or more!

Do you know, as a matter of fact, what your club head speed is?

Sometime ago, as I've posted here, I bought a speed stick. It increased my club head speed for sure, but I really didn't get much more distance, if any. However I took lessons. With lessons, I now shoot with my eight iron what I used to shoot with my five iron. This goes to show, there's no substitute for proper technique -- [not that I have that yet].

Most recently, through Leadbetter Interactive, I was able to increase the distance of my driver. I noticed, that by deliberately trying to make a wide arc on the way back, I wasn't hinging my wrist properly. I make it a point to hinge my wrist and release though impact, and this has given me more distance.

It would be great to see a video of your swing.

Good luck



James H.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

You write that you want clubhead speed when in fact you really want to send the ball far. Let's begin by disambiguating the whole thing. Then I have some suggestions for you to try.


Clubhead speed.

Clubhead speed is merely a function of the speed at which the clubhead moves through the air. It requires no great skill in itself. We can all swing the club real fast with all the speed we want. Pretty much. It's really simple, we swing harder, the club moves faster. Or is it? Well, yeah, that's about the extent of clubhead speed. We could argue that by swinging harder we make it more difficult to generate clubhead speed but when our technique is good enough (it doesn't have to look good), more power will produce more clubhead speed.


Send the ball far.

This is where we get lost. We swing harder but the ball doesn't go farther. There must be something wrong but we just can't figure it out. We don't understand. More power should send the ball farther but it doesn't. We expect the ball to go farther but it doesn't. We continue to not understand. Try as we might, nothing works the way we understand it. After all when we throw a ball, the harder we throw it, the farther it goes. What's wrong with this damned club?


Let the club do the work.

The club is designed to perform a very specific function. It's our job to learn how to use the club and then to use the club as it was designed. Once we learn how the club works, we can use it properly. The club is used to strike the ball. The better we can strike the ball with it, the farther we can send the ball. This brings us to our next step, control.


Control the club.

As with anything we do, when we apply more force it's more difficult to control. Whether it's driving or flying or just walking, more force means less control. So it is with golf. More force means less control. We've learned that control is what allows us to strike the ball properly. And striking the ball properly is what allows us to send the ball far. So, control is what allows us to send the ball far. Not power. Control the club as best we can so that it can do its job as best it can.


Strike the ball downward.

When we strike the ground with the club, it affects the club in unpredictable ways. So, it's best to strike the ball first, the ground second. We do this by striking the ball downward. We all know what happens when we strike the ground first. It slows the club, it twists it too. So when it finally strikes the ball, the ball goes a shorter distance and probably not where we aimed it anyway.


A different subject: Strength training.

I train for strength 3 times a week since march of this year. I've seen improvements in everything I do from walking to swinging the club. Not only do I see improvements in the amount of force I can apply but I also see improvements in the control I have over the objects that I use. Such as the golf club to name just the object that is pertinent to this discussion. This year, I only played three times. Once at the beginning of the season and twice at the end or just about. The last time I played, I played my best ever. I was longer and straighter than I've ever been. Even with the little practice I could put in and that wasn't much. I can say that the improvements that I saw came almost exclusively from strength training.

Have a look at strength training. Consider it as the single most effective way to improve.


A little technique goes a long way.

The long loose swing versus the tight wide swing. I'll let the comparison speak for itself.

Long left thumb: (edit: loose long swing) flying right elbow

- Club drops lower at the top of the backswing
- Swing arc is narrower
- Distance traveled by clubhead is shorter
- Angle between left arm and club is narrower
- Thus, movement between top-of-the-backswing and impact is longer
- Acceleration is more violent and more difficult to control

Short left thumb: (edit: tight wide swing) tucked in right elbow

- Club drops higher at the top of the backswing
- Swing arc is wider
- Distance traveled by clubhead is longer
- Angle between left arm and club is wider
- Thus, movement between top-of-backswing and impact is shorter
- Acceleration is smoother and easier to control


So does a little practice.

Without practice, you might as well go fishing. Practice is the only way we know to develop, improve and maintain skill.

Well there you have it.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

Clubhead speed is simply a function of loose wrists and hands coupled with the full turn of the shoulders while remaining balanced with minimum use of the arms.
A lot of folks can say alot, but if you can't learn to do the above, forget it and settle for 200 yard drives.
If you can't give up control to get control, forget it.
No long dissertations here, they are not necessary and only serve to promote self flagellation.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

...whenever I swing the club it just feels labored ...I need to know what you feel, and when in the swing you start to feel club head speed generating.

Unfortunately, the answer is never. Speed is not felt. In fact, it is better to feel as if you didn't really try.

When you say you feel like you labor, this is doing 2 bad things: creation of tension and mis-timing.

Tension causes a lack of elasticity. You do need some tension to hold simple balance, but that is about it. Nothing outside that. Have you ever tried to hit a shot that you just allowed gravity to take over? You still put your body into the known correct positions, but to generate the needed acceleration, you just let the force of nothing more then gravity do it's thing.

This is the feeling I get. Its very relaxing and satisfying. Simple balance and pow, like a whip cracking at the ball.

This brings me to the second bad thing, mis-timing. To generate more power/clubhead speed, you have to have proper timing. It is SO easy to get out of sync when just one item in the sequence tenses up...god help you if you have 2 or more. You end up looking like you forced it out there, wobbled in balance and wonder why the harder you try the shorter it goes..makes no sense!

So here's what a whip has to offer...simple acceleration with minimal effort. Starting the handle of a whip creates an energy wave down the whip. It has a constantly decreasing circumference to the tip. This energy wave travels down the chord and increases in speed until it reaches the tip where it breaks the speed of sound and that is what you hear...and mini-sonic boom. All that from a 40 mph starting throw.

If the whip has any stiff point in the chord, the wave is broken and it has to start over at that point...never reaching it's potential.

The golf swing is the same thing. Your legs are the handle. Let them simply start to rotate their full action of letting your weight travel from the back foot to the front while rotating your hips.

Your hips now get to be thrown around your spine. The hips can help a bit. Use your torso to stay balanced and get the rest of the body rotating toward the target.

Your shoulders are now going. They have some power of their own. Get them to rotate and fire.

Arms, wrists and hands are all now at that prior effort's mercy. They just make contact. Slight adjustments is all they have time to do...maybe a high shot has them slightly timed one way, a fade let's them relax and drag through...draws have them swinging on an inside-out path...etc.

What is essential is that you do not focus all your effort on one item making it the point of maximum power...starting the swing there. This is the stiff part of the whip. Each part of the swing needs to be elastic enough so the action prior causes it to begin it's action. It can add it's only little bit, and that causes the next in line to begin it's action...and so on.

Here's the fun part. You can think about it, but you can't force it. It has to be a completely natural sequence. You are going to be stronger in certain parts of your body then another guy, so your natural points of acceleration will come at various places, but what has to be the same is that you still have the same sequence.

-------

Ok, so you go out to the range, relax, hit 20 balls, and they go all over the place...I mean everywhere. 30 yd hooks and 20 yards slices. BUT...you felt something...a sense of whipping action that you never felt before. You try it again, just thinking about that one thing...not caring where they go, but only interested in that one feeling. You realize that you CAN feel greater speed being generated because you just nailed one. IT went straight and with the most power you have ever created. That is the one you want. Don't worry where it goes yet, but about the feeling of whip affect.

[LowPost42]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

I took two things out of Tiger's book (How I Play Golf).

1) There can only be one 'fastest' part of the swing. Know where you want that to be.

2) Do nothing at the expense of balance. Even when Tiger swings all out, he's balanced.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

regarding #2: Tiger is hardly balanced when he swings all out; there is a fall back move or an upward left hip move which takes him off balance. He just recovers quickly so you may not notice on tv but in person, he is anything but balanced going all out.

I took two things out of Tiger's book (How I Play Golf).

1) There can only be one 'fastest' part of the swing. Know where you want that to be.

2) Do nothing at the expense of balance. Even when Tiger swings all out, he's balanced.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

I can imagine his "all out" and ours are worlds apart. His 80% swing is probably our 110.

[BrianW]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

I am not suggesting that speed does not matter, I would however suggest that speed without control is a bit of a lottery in what results you may get from shot to shot. Martin has a point that we can all swing a club very fast if we try. There is a definite trade off between clubhead speed and repeatable solid contact when striving for optimum distance.

I have quoted this before but please excuse me using it again, I think it makes an important point:

"The most important factor that determines driving distance is NOT club head speed. The most important factor is making solid contact
. For every half inch that your strike is off center you will lose 10 yards in distance. While, on the other hand, it takes 1 mile per hour of extra club head speed to gain only 3 yards in distance. In fact, I have recorded several instances where golfers increased their distance by reducing their club head speed!"

[vp27519]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

In my last lesson, coach said something quite interesting and made me put the swing speed into perspective.

He said that the speed of the swing is most important after you have hit the ball.

This has slowed me down in the first movement of the down swing.

Food for thought.

[jamesh]

Re: Clubhead Speed ???

"The most important factor that determines driving distance is NOT club head speed. The most important factor is making solid contact


When I first started taking lessons, the coaches would try to mimic me after my swing, since I would be almost falling out of my shoes. I finally got a proper set of shoes [the previous ones were golf shoes but without spikes] and I deliberately try to swing within myself and keep my balance. I found by doing this, I can focus on the ball hitting the sweet spot of the of the club, and my distance is more predictable as is the outcome of the swing. When I try to swing fast and hard, my hands invariably get in front of my body and the ball scoots to the right -- I'm a lefty.

James H.