Proper Wrist Position at Address?

[RiverKing]

Hi all,

I'm hoping for some help with the wrist position at address... specifically, whether you feel the wrists should be fully bowed (uncocked??) when you first grip the club. After going through Greg's excellent lesson page (thanks Greg!) and re-reading Pelz's Short Game Bible I'm fully converted to the no swat wrist cock, but I'm finding now that at impact the toe of the club is really digging into the ground, with some painful results.

I've always been taught to grip the club by letting your arms just hang to your sides and then bringing them together naturally, but when I do that I definitely create an acute angle between my forearm and the line of my thumb... yet when I look at the pictures of Faldo at address in Avid Golfer's tagline he's almost the opposite, with a virtually straight (almost obtuse) angle from elbow to thumb.

In my mind that would make sense.... basically presetting the impact wrist position at address and aligning the club to it.... but it sure feels weird!! Is this just a bad habit that I need to get out of?

PS... thanks for all the great posts! GTO is one of the highlights of my day :>)

[GregJWillis]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Don't setup having the wrists bowed...you want them preset in a cocked position. Because your arms hang straight down and the club is at its address angle, you should defiantly feel like this is the beginning of a preset position.

If you are digging deep divots, this is probably due to the hands setting up to high. When you swing back down, you have to drop them further down then they were at setup, and this adjustment is prone to error -- over doing it -- and there goes the deep holes.

Think about setup as a impact position, and you will have your hands in a better position to return back to.

[kbp]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

AG’s avatar is deceiving in the angle of the picture. Faldo plays a neutral grip and HAS a slight cup in the left wrist.

RK, you’ve discovered one of the anomalies of generic golf instruction (not talking about you, Greg ) which is seldom sufficiently explained. You address the ball with the club head square, at the proper loft and lie, with the shaft at the proper forward lean and lie as the club is designed AND with a slight cup in the left wrist. (except MAYBE those with a very weak grip). You are told to return the club and the shaft to the exact same position at impact, but you are also told to have a flat left wrist when you return.

Address the ball as you have been taught. Now, without loosening your grip or moving your shoulders or your core, flatten out your left wrist. What does this do to the club head and/or the shaft angles? What compensations in your body position will have to be made between address and impact to get the club to return square and at proper loft when the left wrist is flattened during the swing? Where in the swing does this "flattening" occur?

The point is that impact and address do NOT look the same. Study some pictures of golfers in both positions and see what the differences are.

You might find it a useful drill to set yourself in an impact position and start the backswing from there and then downswing to hit the ball. Basically hitting balls starting from an impact position rather than a traditional address position.

[RiverKing]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Thanks for the well written replies guys, but I'm afraid I don't quite get it :>(

KBP, I wonder if we're talking about a different wrist angle? I think in your post you are talking more about the angle between the back of the hand and the forearm... in which case, I agree with you and have often wondered that same question myself (flattening/decupping of the wrist at impact should in theory both close and deloft clubface, shouldn't it? Does this explain why a stronger grip = draw? Another thread maybe!! :>).....

For now, I'm more interested in the other plane of movement for the wrist... the up and down.(I think they call it adduction/abduction?) I'm wondering if at setup my wrist should be all the way "down" so that when I release the club at impact it returns to a flattened sole..

Greg, you mention that at setup the wrists should be in a precocked position.... but to my (admittedly ignorant) mind, isn't that going to guarantee a toe down impact position? As I rotate my shoulders through I'm basically uncocking my wrists downward (ie chopping wood or casting a fly).... and if I've soled my clubface flat at address with a pre-cocked position, that's going to drive the toe of my club down... it'll be square to the target, but not flat to the ground.

My divots aren't necessary deep, they're just very much toe heavy, with mostly thin, off center hits.

Thanks for the help guys, and sorry if I'm not understanding.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Your right, I read your post again...you mention only the toe was digging. But, I still like a precocked setup. This is setup so that the toe actually raises up at address. You are over releasing downward into impact. So still do that action (vertical up/dn), just not at much as you are now...sounds like you are exaggerating that move.

[BrianW]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Hi Riverking,

This article should assist with your understanding:

Standing to the Ball
Aligning the club-face to the hands - the arm set is established

We have now established a correct grip and we understand the need for a correct set-up of the arms. We must now learn to address the ball correctly and squarely, incorporating the features we have discussed so far.
First, to establish correct alignment of the club-face to the hands, grip the club correctly and extend the arms and club out in front of you as illustrated. Now check that the elbows "bow" out slightly and then check that the leading edge of the club-face is vertical ( i.e. square) and correctly aligned with the hands.
Now, without altering the angle formed by the shaft and the arms (angle A) lower the head of the club and ground it behind the ball.....
Grounding the club


While your are lowering the head of the club you will, of course, bend forward from the waist and flex the knees. This places the club-head roughly equidistant between the feet.....and club shaft, hands and head, align down the centre of the body. In this way exaggeration at address is avoided.
This method of aligning the face of the club to the hands, and of grounding the club correctly should become routine. It enables us to retain all the features of the set-up that we have considered previously.
This simple drill will automatically ensure a correct position at address, free from stiffness, contortion or exaggeration.

[RiverKing]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Fantastic! That's a big help, thank you Brian. And as always, what took 20 minutes to type is explained with one picture :>)

Thanks too to Greg and kbp for their time...

[kbp]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Sorry, RK. I misunderstood your question.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

I like that, BrianW. I do that almost exactly with the subtle difference that I begin with the club pointed to the sky at a right angle from the left forearm instead of directly in front. In effect, I begin with the wrists cocked and then extend to address the ball.

[Avid Golfer]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Hi all,


I've always been taught to grip the club by letting your arms just hang to your sides and then bringing them together naturally, but when I do that I definitely create an acute angle between my forearm and the line of my thumb... yet when I look at the pictures of Faldo at address in Avid Golfer's tagline he's almost the opposite, with a virtually straight (almost obtuse) angle from elbow to thumb.

In my mind that would make sense.... basically presetting the impact wrist position at address and aligning the club to it.... but it sure feels weird!! Is this just a bad habit that I need to get out of?

PS... thanks for all the great posts! GTO is one of the highlights of my day :>)

RiverKing,

I'm unclear on the wrist angle you are referring to in your message. Are you talking about the view of Faldo we see from down the line or face on? Are you referring to the right wrist, or the left?

If you're talking about the right wrist and the down the line view (and why his wrist is in a high position) I believe there are two reasons we see this (straight/obtuse/high) address angle with Faldo (and a lot of other pros). First, Faldo has the club held very much in the fingers (not near the palm). Second, Faldo has a neutral right hand grip (where his plam faces the target). People who hold the club more in the palm area of the right hand loose that angle, as do people who have a stronger right hand grip (where the hand is more underneath the club, palm facing toward the sky, right arm rotated/tucked lower). If you look at the (many) other pros who hold the club in the fingers of right hand, and have a neutral right hand grip (Ernie Els for example) you will see the same position as Faldo.

I'm finding now that at impact the toe of the club is really digging into the ground, with some painful results.

Biomechanic studies, pictures, and video of pros show that they come into impact with the hands/wirsts/shaft at a slightly steeper angle then it was at address. Nick Price is one of the few exceptions to this in that he returns to the same shaft angle plane at impact that he had at address (I've also seen Sergio Garcia return to his address plane as well).

Like most pros (and other golfers) you are probably arriving at impact at a steeper angle than at address, and that is why you find the toe digging more than the heel of the club. If you watch most the pros at setup the toe of their clubs is up very slightly up at address (Fuzzy Zoller being an extreme example), and then when they reach impact centrifugal force (and apparently shaft bend / droop) pull the arms and shaft up slightly.

Here is a picture of Trevor Immelman and Nick Price at their setup and impact positions from down the line.

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/178...ndpriceof0.jpg)

[Neil18]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Two of the best ball strikers ever (Snead and Hogan) returned the shaft to the same plane as at address.

So does Tiger.

Say no more.

[BrianW]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

The problem is one of forcing the wrists unnaturally downwards at address which lowers the toe of the club and also creates tension in the arms and wrists. By doing this the wrist hinge and swing bio-mechanics become restricted.

My previous post shows how to address the ball without creating tension.

[Avid Golfer]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

Two of the best ball strikers ever (Snead and Hogan) returned the shaft to the same plane as at address.

So does Tiger.

Say no more.

Incorrect about Woods. He does not return to his address position at impact (see the picture below).

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5...simpactat3.jpg)

Edit:
I do agree that footage of Hogan I have shows him arrving at the same shaft plane as at address (like I noted with Price and Garcia), but Snead is not on the same plane at address and impact.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6...simpactep3.jpg

As noted before the players who return to the same shaft plane at impact are in the minority. The vast majority of tour players (and other golfers) return to a more upright plane at impact.

[BrianW]

Re: Proper Wrist Position at Address?

This is a nice little video that may help Riverking with his toe down problem and will also help with the debate on swingplane at address verses impact:

http://www.golftipsmag.com/video/ins...ationship.html