Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

[jambalaya]

Did this on another site but want to try it here too. Don't know if this is right forum but it is about golf instruction.

When I was first starting to play golf, my dad told me that you mainly swing with the left arm and that above all one needed to keep the left arm straight. He said the right arm only came along for the ride. So here I am trying to keep the arm straight throughout the swing. So I had a heavily left hand and left arm controlled swing for a long time. Another one was that I needed to drag the club straight back and along the ground on the backswing as far as possible. As a result my swing had a lot of lateral movement. Yet, I was able to score as low as a 78 one time. How did I even hit the freeking ball?

[slater170]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Did this on another site but want to try it here too. Don't know if this is right forum but it is about golf instruction.

When I was first starting to play golf, my dad told me that you mainly swing with the left arm and that above all one needed to keep the left arm straight. He said the right arm only came along for the ride. So here I am trying to keep the arm straight throughout the swing. So I had a heavily left hand and left arm controlled swing for a long time. Another one was that I needed to drag the club straight back and along the ground on the backswing as far as possible. As a result my swing had a lot of lateral movement. Yet, I was able to score as low as a 78 one time. How did I even hit the freeking ball?

jam
the worst advice that was ever given to me was "if you want something to r elax you, take up golf!"

[bdbl]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Did this on another site but want to try it here too. Don't know if this is right forum but it is about golf instruction.

When I was first starting to play golf, my dad told me that you mainly swing with the left arm and that above all one needed to keep the left arm straight. He said the right arm only came along for the ride. So here I am trying to keep the arm straight throughout the swing. So I had a heavily left hand and left arm controlled swing for a long time. Another one was that I needed to drag the club straight back and along the ground on the backswing as far as possible. As a result my swing had a lot of lateral movement. Yet, I was able to score as low as a 78 one time. How did I even hit the freeking ball?

Great game golf, lots of different opinions.

Leslie King would have said that your dad was half right, "the golf action consists mainly of a FREE SWING OF THE LEFT HAND AND ARM to the top...and down again into and through the ball", he'd have disagreed though with the "straight back & slow".

WHy did you change from a "left hand and arm swing" if you were getting decent scores?

[Martin Levac]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

King's lessons state that so it must be correct.

Yet mechanically speaking, we can apply more force through a shorter lever. The left arm straight makes one long lever. The right arm bent makes two short levers. The left shoulder makes one prime mover. The right shoulder and the right elbow make two prime movers. Also, the muscles involved in the right arm's motion are stronger. Further, pulling is much more efficient and effective than pushing. Paradoxically, propelling the club with the left arm is a pushing action while using the right arm is a pulling action. At least for me it is.

Perhaps he did get bad advice after all.

Test this theory on a cable crossover machine at your gym. See which way you can pull the most weight.

[bdbl]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

King's lessons state that so it must be correct.


Perhaps he did get bad advice after all.

Actually Martin I didn't say that it must be correct*.

On the contrary I clearly stated that it was a different opinion; an attempt, clearly lost on you, to warn against dogmatism and labelling things right and wrong just because thats the way you do it or have been taught.

It woud appear that Jam has read, been told, or decided that "lateral movement" in the swing is wrong. Fine, that might be the "correct advice".

However, assuming Jam's profile is correct following "good advice" - which probably included lectures on the Magnus Effect and Levers - leaves him playing off 20 whereas when he was following bad advice he could score in the seventies.

* Correct or not King's record, in fact, was not that shabby.

[jambalaya]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Great game golf, lots of different opinions.

Leslie King would have said that your dad was half right, "the golf action consists mainly of a FREE SWING OF THE LEFT HAND AND ARM to the top...and down again into and through the ball", he'd have disagreed though with the "straight back & slow".

WHy did you change from a "left hand and arm swing" if you were getting decent scores?

Well the left arm should be kept pretty straight, especially on the initial take away but it doesn't have to be perfectly straight at the top. I was getting decent scores because I was young and very athletic so I had the reflexes to overcome bad technique and thinking. Later in life when I started to play a lot again I hit a wall and had to start over. In all the lessons and comments and tips on forums, nobody has really emphasized the point about the left arm. It may be somewhat important but seems not to be something upon which to build a swing.

[jambalaya]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

King's lessons state that so it must be correct.

Yet mechanically speaking, we can apply more force through a shorter lever. The left arm straight makes one long lever. The right arm bent makes two short levers. The left shoulder makes one prime mover. The right shoulder and the right elbow make two prime movers. Also, the muscles involved in the right arm's motion are stronger. Further, pulling is much more efficient and effective than pushing. Paradoxically, propelling the club with the left arm is a pushing action while using the right arm is a pulling action. At least for me it is.

Perhaps he did get bad advice after all.

Test this theory on a cable crossover machine at your gym. See which way you can pull the most weight.

I've always considered the left hand as the puller and the right hand as the pusher but I think you can look at it both ways. And yes, one can move more weight with a curl than a tricep excercise where one pushes out. However, if the task was to move something along the ground you could apply more force by putting your wieght behind it an pushing. Pulling requires you to be anchored.

[LowPost42]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Did this on another site but want to try it here too. Don't know if this is right forum but it is about golf instruction.

When I was first starting to play golf, my dad told me that you mainly swing with the left arm and that above all one needed to keep the left arm straight. He said the right arm only came along for the ride. So here I am trying to keep the arm straight throughout the swing. So I had a heavily left hand and left arm controlled swing for a long time. Another one was that I needed to drag the club straight back and along the ground on the backswing as far as possible. As a result my swing had a lot of lateral movement. Yet, I was able to score as low as a 78 one time. How did I even hit the freeking ball?

The worst golf advice I've ever gotten was to change my putting stroke to 'textbook'. You know, right mechanical. Follow through longer than the backswing, head stone still, eyes directly over the ball. All sorts of things to think about. My playing partner who scored better than I did (but looking back, was a much worse putter) would constantly yell 'DECEL!' any time I 'hit' my putt versus 'stroked' my putt.

I promptly went from a guy who could 2 putt from anywhere to one bound in mechanics. Sure, there were lots of times I'd 'lapse' back into my 'natural' stroke (and damn if I didn't hole a lot of those! DUMMY!) But more or less I would be mechanical. "Odd" how I sink more 60 footers than the average player, mostly because I'm putting carefree and not 'trying' to make it.

I've been reading a book by Tim Gallowey (The Inner Game of Golf). It's been reinforcing what we all know - that golfer 1 in your head can't play golf a lick, but golfer 2 is fantastic. What this book is showing is how to let golfer 2 do more golfing - from the lesson tee right to the course.

Needless to say, it still burns me up. I've gone back to my natural stroke and style, and run a lag drill in my living room. Easily 90% of the time, I'm within inches of my target.

[bdbl]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

I've been reading a book by Tim Gallowey (The Inner Game of Golf). It's been reinforcing what we all know - that golfer 1 in your head can't play golf a lick, but golfer 2 is fantastic. What this book is showing is how to let golfer 2 do more golfing - from the lesson tee right to the course.

Good book; read it on Ian Hancocks' recommendation. Even better imo though is Mind Swings: Thinking Way to Better Golf by Richard Masters and John Burns.

Similar ideas but, being written by Brits, without the nagging feeling that any moment some Californian guru is about to tell me to get centred, find closure or try to know myself better.

As my wife points out if I really did find and know myself I wouldn't like me - she certainly doesn't much

Seriously though; Mind Swings - can't recommend it enough.

[GregJWillis]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Did this on another site but want to try it here too. Don't know if this is right forum but it is about golf instruction.

Worst advice I have ever receive is when right before I am ready to go through my pre-shot, my partner says, "Ok Greg, just like last time".

That kills me. I work hard to forget everything in the past (good or bad) and only focus on the now, and this guy goes and reminds me to remember the past! Have to start my "pre"-pre-shot routine all over again.

The other one is, "Ok, there's OB right...don't go there".

Well SOB ... I know that. What the hell did you tell me that for! Now all I can think about IS the darn OB. Time to start my pre-pre-pre-shot routine all over again.

[BrianW]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

I knew an old PGA Pro who is not with us anymore but he was a pretty good golfer in his younger days. He used to talk about a swing called "Drag and Trap" you would take the arms away in the backswing and let the club trail behind the hands, in the downswing you would let the hands lead with the club trailing, it was much like the action you use with a paintbrush. I think this action was popular with the old hickory wooden shafts as they were so bendy.

Leslie King trained some pretty good golfers in his Knightsbridge studio and was highly respected for his methods. His left arm dominated swing always seemed a pulling action to me, like the action of pulling down on a bell rope. I expect there is some kind of complex bio-mechanical explanation that states pulling is pushing but for the sake of not staying awake at nights pondering I will not let my pulls become pushes

[LowPost42]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Worst advice I have ever receive is when right before I am ready to go through my pre-shot, my partner says, "Ok Greg, just like last time".

That kills me. I work hard to forget everything in the past (good or bad) and only focus on the now, and this guy goes and reminds me to remember the past! Have to start my "pre"-pre-shot routine all over again.

The other one is, "Ok, there's OB right...don't go there".

Well SOB ... I know that. What the hell did you tell me that for! Now all I can think about IS the darn OB. Time to start my pre-pre-pre-shot routine all over again.

So if I talked to you enough, you'd have to drive home before the 3rd hole to start the pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-shot routine?

[Kenisu]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

'' Take it easy, it's almost a gimmie.'' Nothing is worse for me.

[Started2k3]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

Worst advice I have ever receive is when right before I am ready to go through my pre-shot, my partner says, "Ok Greg, just like last time".

That kills me. I work hard to forget everything in the past (good or bad) and only focus on the now, and this guy goes and reminds me to remember the past! Have to start my "pre"-pre-shot routine all over again.

The other one is, "Ok, there's OB right...don't go there".

Well SOB ... I know that. What the hell did you tell me that for! Now all I can think about IS the darn OB. Time to start my pre-pre-pre-shot routine all over again.

That could be considered advice:
2 stroke penalty, or
loss of hole in match play.

[Martin Levac]

Re: Worse Golf Advise You've Gotten

I've always considered the left hand as the puller and the right hand as the pusher but I think you can look at it both ways. And yes, one can move more weight with a curl than a triceps exercise where one pushes out. However, if the task was to move something along the ground you could apply more force by putting your weight behind it an pushing. Pulling requires you to be anchored.

That's why I said paradoxically. The left hand is in front of the club so it must be in a pulling mode. The right hand is behind the club so it must be in a pushing mode. We must look at the prime movers of the arms to determine how much force is being applied. For the left arm, there's only the left shoulder applying force to the entire straight arm. For the right arm, there's the right shoulder and the right triceps applying force to two short levers. Further, the muscles executing the motion of the right arm are stronger. Even if the club is being pulled by the left arm, the amount of force being applied is about one quarter that of the right arm.

Both the left and right arm pull the club anyway. It's a function of the position of the club as it is being propelled. The clubhead is behind the force being applied to it thus it is being pulled.

Pulling has always been more efficient thus allowed heavier weights to be lifted and moved. Pushing is unstable and requires strength to stabilize which could otherwise be used to propel the object being pushed. Pulling is self stabilizing so there's no power lost. All the force is being used to propel the object. Both pushing and pulling requires one to be anchored to something, usually it's the ground. Our muscles work by pulling.

I forgot. Worst advice I ever got always started with "you shouldn't" or "you must" or always ended with "is wrong".