Still teachin Austinology...

[Matt10]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

Matt,

How to kill the ball is Dan's handywork. That one is NOT the MA method. Secrets of the games longest hitter is where I start all my students. It's at PeaceRivergolf.com. This was the last video Mike and Mike did. Mike told me about How to kill the ball when it was being written. He never endorsed it. I remember talking to him about it and he went ballistic about it. I never brought it up again after that.

I know there are 2 ladies in Texas that came out to see Mike every year that are PGA instructors but their names ilude me now. I'm sure Thomas still teaches in Oregon. Mike Dunaway is in Rogers, Ark. I'm in New Orleans.

GB

Great - the one from Peace River - Secrets of the Games Longest Hitter - that is the DVD I have. The book How to Kill the Ball and 21st Century Golf Swing I have as well, but as you said, are by Shauger.

I'll have to dig up the DVD when I get home - I remember it being pretty well done.

Thanks GB.

[BrianW]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

Brian,

Like Low Post stated, its kinesiology applied to the golf swing using the muscles and joints in an optimum manner. I guess that would be the short answer. I picked Mike's brain every week for month's and would get bit's and pieces. I found my experience like a jigsaw puzzle constantly adding pieces until it is highly efficient. I like to use the analogy get it started and get out of its way. Mike always said if you’re doing it right the power produced feels like it will rip your arms out of the sockets.

Some of the differences are the 2 part lower body movement. A gate like motion where on posts the weight on the right side without locking the right knee and the left knee comes down the left side swigs around the post then at the transition the weight shifts to the left first and right side comes in line with the left. I tell students keep the belly button moving.

The arm movement at the start of the backswing is a bit different. I could probably do 2 pages on how it's different. Basically, I try to get each arm working individually so a student can understand each arms role in the swing. I then manipulate the arms in the proper position. When I put my hands on a students arm, I can feel the muscles contract and relax and know when they are doing it right. I then have them marry the two arms into one action on the club so the brain can coordinate the movement. The important positions are the parallelogram with the club shaft, arms and shoulders. It looks like you are taking the club low and to the inside but its just part of the wind-up.

Overall I like the balance from side to side, no part of the body forcing the swing, each body part giving its total energy when called upon. The swing becomes a massive energy release at impact.

I am putting together all my notes from talking with Mike, all my videos and observations I have written about how I have taught students this swing and am going to put it on tape. There is so much detail in the swing there is not any one source of information to go to anymore.

I was teaching a new golfer tonight who was doing more gardening, throwing dirt and grass on my back than hitting the ball. In 30 minutes, I had him looking somewhat like a golfer. He was hitting a 9i about 120-125 yards straight and high with some spin. He had a lot of bad luggage coming into the lesson but left in pretty good shape to move forward. The keys were the pivot first, then getting the right arm fixed. He was ecstatic about the sudden progress. This swing is easy to learn but difficult to master the finer points. I just went to blades because I feel confident I can hit them again. Heart problems slow on to a halt some days.

Sorry for the rambling its been a difficult week. I hope there is an answer in here somewhere.

GB

GB,

Thanks for taking time to explain, it is appreciated. There is plenty for me to ponder on.

I am glad that you are feeling better.

[jambalaya]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

MA's 2 "secrets" are the compound pivot and the door knob.

The compound pivot is moving the right hip up as it turns, all that does is set for a good brace to hit against, its not that big of a secret and will probly naturally happen if you let your mind turn your hip and your right hand fires through.

The door knob (not sure what he actually calls it) is thinking of a rotating a door in your right hand knob counter clockwise in the BS and clockwise in the DS. I have heard of pretnd like you are skipping stones on a pond method which seems similar to me. basically it gets you in the proper postion at the top as far as the cup and cock go which is right hand fully cupped and then cocked. Personally I prefer to cup as the 1st move for the takeaway and then cock it as I go back which if I "turn the knob" I would be in that postion up top, I just feel "too bouncy" at the top if I use MA's method.

Though I dont' think he used any "ground breaking" secrets, he does have sound advice. I mean who else hit a ball 512 yds, he must be doing something right. I never did see his videos though maybe he explains it better than some and people get it better and can relate with his method, but I don't think it is anything special.

Please explain the part I have bolded. I am a right handed golfer so to move the right hip up as a turn (turn back?) is confusing. I would think I am creating a reverse pivot. And how do I hit "against" my right hip. In the forward swing should one hit against the front hip (left hip for a right hander). You may be left handed but this doesn't make sense to me.

[golfinguy28]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

. .

[jambalaya]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

So GG28, the Mike Austin thing has helped you to see the light? I too am trying to develop a more natural swing with the idea of throwing the club with the right hand as part of the process. My problem is I just can't consistently get posted up on that left leg to complete the forward turn and get maximum leverage in my swing. I'm making a little progress though.

One thing I find happening when using the right arm or hand more is that it works really well at first then suddenly I lose my swing plane and have to go back to just thinking about keeping the club on plane. I can at least make decent contact just keeping the club on plane but there is still something missing. That certain pop in my swing is not there.

I am thinking about looking at Mike Austin's DVD or perhaps the 3skills thing to see if I can find another breakthrough.

[golfinguy28]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

. .

[glennt1966]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

New student to the Mike Austin swing and i definitely agree that the George H stuff is not very good. I have the Secrets of the Worlds Longest Hitter video and will stick with that as it seems simple and seems to work.

[Pin High]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

Matt,

How to kill the ball is Dan's handywork. That one is NOT the MA method. Secrets of the games longest hitter is where I start all my students. It's at PeaceRivergolf.com. This was the last video Mike and Mike did. Mike told me about How to kill the ball when it was being written. He never endorsed it. I remember talking to him about it and he went ballistic about it. I never brought it up again after that.

I know there are 2 ladies in Texas that came out to see Mike every year that are PGA instructors but their names ilude me now. I'm sure Thomas still teaches in Oregon. Mike Dunaway is in Rogers, Ark. I'm in New Orleans.

GB

GolfBald,

PM sent

[HytrewQasdfg]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

I'm trying to learn a little about the Austin swing so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in (and ask a couple of questions).

I purchased:

Mike & Mike's "Secrets" video,
Dunaway's "World's Best Driver" video,
Dunaway's "Hit it Hard" book,
Shauger's "How to Kill the Ball" book.

(As an aside, it is amazing what you can find on Amazon in the used section, I have less that $50 in the entire collection, and I've always believed you have to get information from multiple sources to get the whole story.)

I'm not sure if Shauger is teaching a variation on Austin's swing, or is just emphasising things differently. There's not doubt though, if you followed Shauger's advice to the tee you would have a different swing than if the followed both Mike's advice to a tee (although to be fair, Dunaway also seems to emphasize things slightly differently in both videos.)

Both books talk about a cranking motion, and the videos talk about throwing from the top. Shauger though, talks about rolling your left wrist counter-clockwise on the back swing, then turning your right wrist clockwise (like turning a doorknob) on the downswing. I Shauger just trying to emphasize that you don't want to use the rolling of the arms by emphasizing the opposite, or is this clockwise twisting motion part of the Austin swing that just isn't emphasized in the other material.

The other thing I noticed is the books emphasize the hip shift & tilt and straightening of the posting leg (right on backswing, left on forswing), but when I watched the videos it seems like a much more subtle motion. Neither Dunaway or Austin lock their legs at anytime, and Austins hip sway and tilt seemed almost imperceptible in the video (even slowed down, although Dunaway seems to show more sway/tilt). However, the guy that appears in Shauger's book performing examples also appears on the extras fo the "Secrets" video, and as far as I can tell he does lock his leg and has a noticble hip sway/tilt.

So which is it? should there be a big sway/tilt with the locking of legs or is this just exageratted in the teaching to get you out of the "bent knees, level hips, rotate around your spine" mindset?

[HytrewQasdfg]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

I am surprised you got all thoose videos and books on people saying "this is what MA taught me" instead of getting an actual MA video and seeing and hearing what MA actually taught.

My advice, get the info strait from the horses mouth.

Austin is on one of the videos.

Your comment does bring up a good point I've noticed. The people surrounding this swing method remind me of a dysfunctional family. Bickering over who is teaching the true swing and who has the right to teach it and who doesn't. It sounds like a bunch of children arguing about which one daddy loved the most.

It's a golf swing, not the formula to turn lead into gold.

I've notice people can teach something in totally different ways, yet achieve the same results. That they emphasize different parts, or use different examples doesn't mean they are teaching it wrong. It only means they are using a different method to teach it.

This is good, because students are different. A single type of teaching approach will not work with every student.

I think it is important to get info form a variety of sources/teachers. What one teacher believes is obvious (so it doesn't even rate a mention) is often a point another teacher feels is obscure (and thus needs to be emphasized.)

The bickering among the teachers of this method is doing them all harm. Potential students don't say "This guy is teaching the real swing, so I'll stay away from the other guys." They say "These guys are an arguing mess, I'm not sure which one has it right, so I'm just going to was my hands of the whole Austin swing thing."

From a marketing perspective, if you want to popularize this swing (and make more money) the half dozen or so guys that have written about this method or present themselves as gurus should bury the hatchet, resolve their personal differences, and form something like "The Austin Swing Teachers Assoc." to help promote the swing method.

If there are slight variations in the way different people teach the swing, that's OK. Even Austin taught the swing slightly differently as he got older.

By presenting more of a united front (instead of the bickering one now presented), the swing will become more popular, and EVERYBODY will have more students and make more money.

[ajcross]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

I can verify your good words about Mike and the BS that Dan puts out there. As far as I'm concerned, Dan stole everything he knows from Mike. I worked with Mike for 6 years, before he passed. I've taken lessons from most pros in the Los Angeles area. Mike was the only teacher that had an answer to every question and could back it up from a physics perspective. I've got a lot of personal video of Mike and I continue to learn all the time. Keep teaching his method. Mike didn't change his theories as the market changed.

[jaacobbowden]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

Matt,

As a person that know sthe whole story behind that mess, I would stick to the original MA teaching. I'll give you the cliff notes version. Dan was asked by Mike to update his material. He was working on a update to his swing. Not being able to work on the swing, about age 90 or so at the time. Dan wrote the book, if you got a first cut at it you will notice all the typos and wrong info. And he put his name on it, Mike was steaming mad.

Not good information, I tried the original book and it was terrible. I don't know if he has revised it. Jacob was a long drive guy before he met Dan. Pinacale Challenge win was before Dan. He already had a good swing. All the pictures in the book are posed unless it has been updated.

Enter George Hibbard, Mister APerfectSwing. George got information from Thomas Dang mostly. He never took a lesson from Mike but met him once. He ask Mike if he could write about his swing and he claims Mike said yes, Thomas was there and said Mike said no. Thomas and I argued this point with him when he left Oregon, when I was out there during Hurricane Katrina. George looked at Mike's swing for a few month's before he did his video. He has never studied under Austin or one of his certified instructors. George steals other instructors swings (Brian Manzella) to make a buck off of them and still does to this day. George is a wordsmith not a golf instructor, may be harsh but he has heard it from me before. I have a copy of his swing when he worked with Thomas. If you seen it, you would know why he only talks on his video, he's boring and long winded. He can't hit the Austin swing, I can say that I have seen him swing in person.

The real information, Secret's of the games longest hitter was produced by Kevin Knoblach. I spoke to him when he was doing the DVD. I sent in a testimonial and it was used on the DVD. Kevin produces documentaries. Mike and Mike Dunaway did the instruction. This is pure MA instruction, I used it and still teach it because it works. Great fundementals. Mike has known Keven's family since he was a kid.

Mike Dunaway did a DVD a few years ago. Good DVD if you can find it. Mike is a great guy, hope he makes it to the Champions tour.

Mike did the famous 60's TV show, not all of which is in the bonus footage. I have the entire show. Austinology was a 300 dollar video that had probably the best instruction but it was poorly produced and difficult to follow. I used it to write all the details down in order and really tweaked my swing and teach these concepts as a whole method, Mike's only and uncorrupted by the **** I've seen. Every time I seen the banner for APerfectSwing it pisses me off. (Rant Off)

I also have an exibition Mike did before the stroke. I had to fix the sound, It was labeled the Pico Riviera exibition. Done on vhs, it had some great stuff I have never seen before. Seeing Mike hit was a thing of beauty. And the crack of the club, wow. Made me wish I was born a few generations earlier to see him hit a ball in his prime.

I know these as imperatives:

1. People can spend there money on what they want, why waste your money on instructors that put out material that convalute or say they know something they know nothing about the original material. Not me.

2. This swing is easy to learn and keep up with, accuracy and distance without ruining your body. Kinesiology.

3. I use this swing and for a man of 46, many physical health issues, in ok shape nothing spectacular, and able to hit a 3 wood an average of 114mph. sometimes higher (season long 309 dead straight) and a driver speed in excess of 120 mph. (season long 327 dead straight, avg 280 - 290 carry). I can truthfully say it works. I started this swing hitting 210-220 carry and roll.

GB

Hi All,

I was just browsing around the internet and came across this post. There is quite a bit of incorrect information in this thread and I wanted to point out at least some of it for those in the future that happen to come across it like I did.

I was not a long drive guy before I met Dan and Mike. When I met Dan and Mike, I was an above average length amateur hitter, but certainly not in the realm of a longer length hitting Tour player much less a long driver. I met them in late January and by late March I had dropped my lowest 18-hole score by 9 shots and added 63 yards to my longest drive. I first tried a long drive event in May and my Pinnacle Distance Challenge win came in July.

Dan originally wrote his How to Kill the Ball book as a tribute to Mike. Mike was very supportive of it and even helped fund it. I was over at Mike's house numerous times during this period when they were both there and Dan was writing it. Once Dan finished the book and started to sell it, Mike started claiming that he himself had written the book and not Dan. Dan was understandably upset by this and it was the beginning of an unfortunate fall-out for them after 20 or so years of being good friends.

Dan gets an bad rap sometimes, but it's really unwarranted because he knew Mike longer than anyone I've ever known that's been a part of all this...to the tune of 20-25 years. Dan caddied for him in tournaments, they played together, Dan did work on Mike's house, etc.

For those that have seen the Mike Dunaway video, you'll notice that many of the pictures in the DVD are from Dan's How to Kill the Ball book. You'll also notice that Dan was in the Peace River video testimonial footage (during my testimonial).

While there are typos, grammatical errors, and what-not in many of Dan's books and DVDs...I would definitely check them out because much of the information is unique and you wouldn't find it any where else. He's a knowledgeable teacher and although he doesn't always teach Mike Austin stuff, he can. I figure he knew Mike's swing better than anyone else just from being with him all those years.

If you haven't read it already, you can also consult Phil Reed's book about Mike Austin. Phil's a respected journalist, he's a good fact checker, was there through much of the things that happened (including a day when Mike Dunaway and I were hitting balls together with Austin and Dan there together filming, commenting, and watching on the two of us), and you can find a lot of the general story in Phil's book.

Anyway, I've got a bit more information about all of this in the Mike Austin section on my website. http://www.jaacobbowden.com/MikeAustin.html

Hope that helps clear up some of this...

Jaacob

[indacup]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

My experience with the Austin method was encouraging at first...but ultimately ended up causing physical damage and sidelined me for half a season and almost surgery.

When I first learned of the Austin method, it seemed very sound and I set up a full length mirror and a rope and practiced the hinge/gate method daily...and I started seeing some really good results...so encouraging, that I flew out from Iowa for three $150 dollar lessons with a supposedly top instructor of the Austin method in So. California.

The first lesson was basic wedge shots which I had already knew and felt comfy with before meeting him....then we moved up to mid/longer irons and he had me do something mechanically I do not recal in the book...but he insisted I practice doing it...I did for about an hour for the next two days...until I tore my rotator cuff attempting to follow his advice.

When I called him up and told him what happened, he said something like: "When I told you to try to do that, i didn't mean LITERALLY try, I really meant "ENVISION" it happening".

WTF?

Well, that was in late July and I ended up sitting out the rest of the season...and many months of healing and therapy

So, I went back to the standard method and never looked back.

[indacup]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

Oops!

After I posted my above comment, I saw Jacobs post....

it was DAN that caused my damage and ruined my season..... Dan may know the system, but he was a horrible instructor.

[Surfmike]

Re: Still teachin Austinology...

In response to the posting of inacup. I have been an Austinite since 2004. The reason that I became a student of Dan was to find a swing that was friendly to the body. Having 3 herniated disks and another that was bulging I was in a great deal of pain when using the “PGA” sanctioned sing. Dan taught me the Austin swing with newer hand action that produces very straight shots. I have had no back problems with the Austin leverage. It’s a much more linear and less around the spine. Since the spine is only designed to rotate 1 degree all the turning around is very hard on the back. For a right handed golfer; as the right hip posts and the left knee comes in toward the golf ball. You turn under with your left shoulder under your chin. In this position there is no strain on the back and if you sequence the down swing properly (and not over the top) the posting to the left leg and the right elbow will touch the appendix and at this point straighten into the ball with a great deal of power. I’m approaching 60 years old and still hitting 300 yard plus drives is a great thrill. I love the Austin method, a person who takes three lessons are not qualified to comment, on the greatest golf swing ever conceived. Dan Shauger is a fantastic golf pro and very talented. I’ve played many rounds of golf with Dan and at 70 plus years; he can still hit an occasional 300 yard drive. Dan not only hits the ball long despite bone on bone right knee; he has one heck of great short game. The first time I played with him we were on a par three and he said I want you to hit the ball 1 yard to the right of that saddle on the green. He then said here I’ll show you and hit his tee shot straight as a string 1 yard right. I proceeded to hit mine 1 yard left of his mine stayed on the saddle, his rolled down and was 1 foot from the flag. Dan taught me so much about the game of golf. He took me from a 90’s golfer and turned me into a single digit handicapper currently a 6.5 only because the putter left me. My ball striking in fantastic!