The Driver obsession

[klaymon]

Re: The Driver obsession

To revive this old thread (and respond to the OP), there are some of us noobies that can only hit the driver. I shoot a 110-115 because I cannot hit my irons regardless of distance (I can drive pretty well, but then it takes me 3-4 more iron shots to get to the green). So, I use my driver on all 4's and 5's because it gets me out there a ways and gives me a fighting chance since my irons are, at best, unpredictable. I do keep reading that the driver is the hardest club to master, yet it seems to be the only one I can do anything with at this point. I can hit straight and I can get distance when I need it (my best is about 315 yards).

[GregJWillis]

Re: The Driver obsession

Sounds like you have a good sweeping swing (good for woods), but when it comes to the steep attack needed for irons, you might be using the same sweeping swing and getting thin, shatters.

Try this:

* Make a 3/4 swing (only bring your arms up to your shoulder hight.
But,
* Fully rotate your shoulders against a restricted hip turn.
* Fully set and release your wrists. (Don't flip the trailing wrists through impact, but maintain the cupped position)
* Relax your grip
* Allow the body to fully rotate back through before impact, and feel the hands release steeply, lastly and vertically down. (you are learning how to trap the ball now)

Once you start to get this contact feel, you can start to add the arms back to their full hight for the full shot.

This should get you to get a more consistant steep attack.

[golfseeker]

Re: The Driver obsession

36 putts for 18 holes is par. Your putting is fine, it's the rest of your game that cost you strokes. You scored 86 so that's 14 strokes over par before you even got to the green. But that's all besides the point, you are the exception, not the rule. The great majority of players don't even approach half of what you just did that game.

In my opinion, the dominating aspect of golf is accuracy to reach the green, GIR. Not putting, not driving, not chipping, not recovering.

Martin,
You are correct in that assessment of my game. My drives keep me in the short grass most of the time but they are average in distance. Therefore my second shots are usually fairly long. That means my third shot is in the 30 to 40 yards range. That means I have to get my approach has to be close enough for a one putt. That rarely happens. My birdies come on the par 5's and sometimes on par 3's. I have been using hybrids for my long approach shots but they have not been much help as far as distance control nor direction. To make a long story short....my middle part of the game suffers the most and it is that part that I spend time in practice. I do get on the GIR but often three putt. I need to spend more time at practice which is now becoming difficult because of the cold weather.
Golfseeker

[takinitdeep]

Re: The Driver obsession

Practice irons by taking half swings but keeping your left arm straight at impact. You should find you will hit crisp irons assuming your ball position is right for you. I would try ball in middle of stance to start.

Martin,
You are correct in that assessment of my game. My drives keep me in the short grass most of the time but they are average in distance. Therefore my second shots are usually fairly long. That means my third shot is in the 30 to 40 yards range. That means I have to get my approach has to be close enough for a one putt. That rarely happens. My birdies come on the par 5's and sometimes on par 3's. I have been using hybrids for my long approach shots but they have not been much help as far as distance control nor direction. To make a long story short....my middle part of the game suffers the most and it is that part that I spend time in practice. I do get on the GIR but often three putt. I need to spend more time at practice which is now becoming difficult because of the cold weather.
Golfseeker

[klaymon]

Re: The Driver obsession

Sounds like you have a good sweeping swing (good for woods), but when it comes to the steep attack needed for irons, you might be using the same sweeping swing and getting thin, shatters.

Of course, you are correct. Are you sure you haven't seen me play yet? I need to try some of your tips and see if I can't get something that works.

Once in a great while I will get an iron shot that I am truly proud of, but I can never duplicate it more than a handful of times in an entire round. I hit LOTS of thin worm-burners with my irons. I live and die by my driver right now. If my drive goes to pot (which it does from time to time, I'm not perfect) my hole is screwed.

Viva la driver!

[Neil18]

Re: The Driver obsession

An interesting long-running thread this.

Something that has dawned on me in the last few months is that this game is not really about distance. It's about accuracy. If it was about distance, we wouldn't have 14 clubs to choose from.

To a certain extent, distance helps. However, I feel the overriding factor is accuracy. If we learn how to hit the ball accurately without trying to blast it, then we are learning how to hit the ball with a square clubface on the correct path. This translates into extra distance anyway.

Accuracy and power come together.

The desire to bomb one out there with the saucepan is not a desire born from the wish to play good golf. It's a desire to feel good about ones self and impress everyone in your playing group, coupled with that buzz of gunning it out there farther than the eye can see.

The buzz in playing good golf comes from shooting the number, not piercing the sound barrier.

The desire to play good golf leads to learning how to send the ball to your chosen target accurately. Even Tiger says that hitting the long ball is fine, but you've still got to put the ball in the right spot. So the overriding factor is accuracy.

In all honesty, I'm not sure what high cappers that break the driver out regularly are trying to achieve. I'm not sure they know either. I fall into the trap too sometimes. "What am I doing? Put it away".

Learn to hit the ball accurately. Distance is of little consequence if we are accurate with every club in the bag. This then breeds confidence, we loosen up, the learned swing has a chance to work for us and all of a sudden we are out-hitting our playing partners with one or even two less clubs. Straight.

I would suggest to anyone debating their own use of the driver (for whatever reason) that one chooses before the start of a round what it is that they are trying to get out of it. Are you trying to send the ball soaring as far as the longest club in the bag will take it from most tees, and not put the club away until you've got one right? Or are you wanting to sit in the bar having shot under your handicap?

This game is about as close to a total paradox as we're likely to get on this planet. Hitting the ball a long way is not a fruit born from popping blood vessels and being on the verge of letting out a Leyton Hewitt-like grunt when we swing. It's a graceful, smooth, beautiful action that doesn't look like it should be powerful. It's artistic. The point of the game is to shoot as low as possible using the very generous number of 14 clubs with which to do the job.

For those stating that they prefer a 150 yard (that's 135 metres scragger) shot to the green from the rough rather than a 190 yard shot from the fairway, I say to you that if you're accurate with your all clubs in your bag most of the time, you could hit a rescue bat to the green from a perfect lie affording more control of the ball, rather than chopping one out of the hay whilst hoping it flies right. There's a reason why hitting the fairway is a premium. It allows the club to work properly without interference from humps, bumps and long grass lumps.

If it were about hitting it a long way, we'd only be given 3 clubs to play with.

A final thought:

Make your next shot as easy as it can be. A conservative strategy breeds a cocky swing.

[BrianW]

Re: The Driver obsession

An interesting long-running thread this.

Something that has dawned on me in the last few months is that this game is not really about distance. It's about accuracy. If it was about distance, we wouldn't have 14 clubs to choose from.

To a certain extent, distance helps. However, I feel the overriding factor is accuracy. If we learn how to hit the ball accurately without trying to blast it, then we are learning how to hit the ball with a square clubface on the correct path. This translates into extra distance anyway.

Accuracy and power come together.

The desire to bomb one out there with the saucepan is not a desire born from the wish to play good golf. It's a desire to feel good about ones self and impress everyone in your playing group, coupled with that buzz of gunning it out there farther than the eye can see.

The buzz in playing good golf comes from shooting the number, not piercing the sound barrier.

The desire to play good golf leads to learning how to send the ball to your chosen target accurately. Even Tiger says that hitting the long ball is fine, but you've still got to put the ball in the right spot. So the overriding factor is accuracy.

In all honesty, I'm not sure what high cappers that break the driver out regularly are trying to achieve. I'm not sure they know either. I fall into the trap too sometimes. "What am I doing? Put it away".

Learn to hit the ball accurately. Distance is of little consequence if we are accurate with every club in the bag. This then breeds confidence, we loosen up, the learned swing has a chance to work for us and all of a sudden we are out-hitting our playing partners with one or even two less clubs. Straight.

I would suggest to anyone debating their own use of the driver (for whatever reason) that one chooses before the start of a round what it is that they are trying to get out of it. Are you trying to send the ball soaring as far as the longest club in the bag will take it from most tees, and not put the club away until you've got one right? Or are you wanting to sit in the bar having shot under your handicap?

This game is about as close to a total paradox as we're likely to get on this planet. Hitting the ball a long way is not a fruit born from popping blood vessels and being on the verge of letting out a Leyton Hewitt-like grunt when we swing. It's a graceful, smooth, beautiful action that doesn't look like it should be powerful. It's artistic. The point of the game is to shoot as low as possible using the very generous number of 14 clubs with which to do the job.

For those stating that they prefer a 150 yard (that's 135 metres scragger) shot to the green from the rough rather than a 190 yard shot from the fairway, I say to you that if you're accurate with your all clubs in your bag most of the time, you could hit a rescue bat to the green from a perfect lie affording more control of the ball, rather than chopping one out of the hay whilst hoping it flies right. There's a reason why hitting the fairway is a premium. It allows the club to work properly without interference from humps, bumps and long grass lumps.

If it were about hitting it a long way, we'd only be given 3 clubs to play with.

A final thought:

Make your next shot as easy as it can be. A conservative strategy breeds a cocky swing.

Good post Neil!

I tried playing a round recently using only my 7 iron on par 4's and 5's just for fun. There was hardly any difference with my scoring and mainly due to the accuracy of the shots.

[jambalaya]

Re: The Driver obsession

I really like using my driver but I use a variety of clubs off the tee. No since using a driver on a 350 yard hole with woods left and right. Distance is not a problem using a three or even a five wood. The problem is if you don't hit those clubs well off the tee you feel doubly cheated. I used to stubbornly use my driver but I am a much more strategic player now.

[bdbl]

Re: The Driver obsession

For those stating that they prefer a 150 yard (that's 135 metres scragger) shot to the green from the rough rather than a 190 yard shot from the fairway, I say to you that if you're accurate with your all clubs in your bag most of the time, you could hit a rescue bat to the green from a perfect lie affording more control of the ball, rather than chopping one out of the hay whilst hoping it flies right.

I think I started the most recent "distance v accuracy" debate by suggesting that "fairways hit" was an over-rated stat with unintended consequences - a slightly different more subtle proposition than "distance is best" which I'd like to defend if I can

First some stats from Richard Johnson's recent Nationwide Tour win at Barona Creek - chosen purely because they suit my point :

Over 4 rounds of Golf – he was ranked first in Driving Distance, first in Putts per Round, first in Putts per Green in Regulation, first in Birdies but ONLY 19th in Driving Accuracy.

For the pros at least then distance is far more important than worrying about hitting the ball in the fairway - not that they like going into the trees either but theres nothing inherently wrong in being in the rough if it gives you a 7 iron (which you are good enough to hit) to the green, rather than hitting a short drive into the fairway and having a 3 iron to the green.

However my argument wasn't about how the pros play because that ain't us, in fact on reflection for the 90% who never or rarely break 90 my argument isn't really about the trade off between distance and accuracy at all it's about how the obsession with "fairways hit" costs the nineties player both accuracy and distance off the tee by inhibiting their swing as they try and steer the ball down the middle.

So for the high capper the 2nd shot choice often isn't between 150 yards from the rough and 190 yards from the fairway because the odds are the inhibited "find the fairway drive" is just as if not more wayward than the committed go-for-it swing - trust me I speak from experience .

However even if I could guarantee that I'd be left with a 3-iron or rescue 190 yarder I know that multiple tour winning US pros only find the green 33% of the time with these shots, so why should I do better?

As long as I'm not in the next county (or even just the woods) I think its better to commit to the drive and take my chances with the rough because ironically I think my chances of finding the fairway will be better that way anyhow.

[bill reed]

Re: The Driver obsession

hi Brian
i remember Trevino and Seve playing St Andrews in a one club challenged and Trevino had a 5 iron and Seve a 6 iron if i remember right( it was in the 70s)
Trevino shot a 70 and seve shot a 69 to win by one shot, the had to putt with the same club too.
most amazing day watching the two of them manufacture shot after shot.
after words the both joked about playing better with one club than having a bag full of them.
don't remember any other pros playing a one club challenge.
we did it one year on new years day but only 5 turned up to play the rest stayed in the clubhouse, it was a good laugh.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: The Driver obsession

Hmmmm! Yes some good points there Robin.

Quite often it's a matter of putting course management before ego. If I consider a few holes that I know are particularly troublesome and hazardous.

One that I play is a 320 yard par 4 that has a horrible ditch at around 220 yards with some big trees to either side running across the fairway, there is a gap to hit through that is around 50 yards wide, right side of fairway is out of bounds as is the far left. I see may players pull out the driver and try a long drive past the hazard that in most cases results in a ball in the hazard or OOB. Even if the drive gets through the gap most will need a PW or 9 iron to the green. I play this hole with two 7 iron shots and hardly ever fail to be on the green with the second.

Another is a short but troublesome par 5 with a wicked 90 deg right dogleg at the last 100 yards, there are two big oak trees sat right in the corner of the dogleg that cut of the corner. The immediate right side of the narrow fairway is out of bounds and big trees all along the left hand side. Any sign of a slice will put the ball OOB into the next field, hooks will put you behind some nasty big trees and you see both so often. I can play my 7 iron again safely to the middle of the fairway, my next 7 iron up the fairway leaves me a nice final 7 over the trees and corner to the green, easy to par but always the birdy chance there begging.

[Neil18]

Re: The Driver obsession

I think I started the most recent "distance v accuracy" debate by suggesting that "fairways hit" was an over-rated stat with unintended consequences - a slightly different more subtle proposition than "distance is best" which I'd like to defend if I can

First some stats from Richard Johnson's recent Nationwide Tour win at Barona Creek - chosen purely because they suit my point :

Over 4 rounds of Golf – he was ranked first in Driving Distance, first in Putts per Round, first in Putts per Green in Regulation, first in Birdies but ONLY 19th in Driving Accuracy.

For the pros at least then distance is far more important than worrying about hitting the ball in the fairway - not that they like going into the trees either but theres nothing inherently wrong in being in the rough if it gives you a 7 iron (which you are good enough to hit) to the green, rather than hitting a short drive into the fairway and having a 3 iron to the green.

However my argument wasn't about how the pros play because that ain't us, in fact on reflection for the 90% who never or rarely break 90 my argument isn't really about the trade off between distance and accuracy at all it's about how the obsession with "fairways hit" costs the nineties player both accuracy and distance off the tee by inhibiting their swing as they try and steer the ball down the middle.

So for the high capper the 2nd shot choice often isn't between 150 yards from the rough and 190 yards from the fairway because the odds are the inhibited "find the fairway drive" is just as if not more wayward than the committed go-for-it swing - trust me I speak from experience .

However even if I could guarantee that I'd be left with a 3-iron or rescue 190 yarder I know that multiple tour winning US pros only find the green 33% of the time with these shots, so why should I do better?

As long as I'm not in the next county (or even just the woods) I think its better to commit to the drive and take my chances with the rough because ironically I think my chances of finding the fairway will be better that way anyhow.

I see your points. I did "get on one" a bit with my post. I tend to do that!

The main one I would like to discuss is your point about the thoughts in the head of the average player being all about "hit the fairway".

I may be prodding at the subconcious here, but next time you're out there, have a good hard look at "why" when you don't hit the fairway.

If, on the tee, your one and only thought is "hit the fairway" and then you let the shot go, you will hit it there more often than not, regardless of the club in your hands. If your thoughts on the tee are "hit the fairway................take the club back nice and steady, don't miss the fairway, keep your head down, steer it down there, lead with the hands, transfer the weight" then it is not the fact that "hit the fairway" has made you become tense and steery, it is the destructive thoughts that followed.

Hit the fairway is a good positive reference and allows your brain to tell your body to put the ball "there".

As a couple of side points:

"However even if I could guarantee that I'd be left with a 3-iron or rescue 190 yarder I know that multiple tour winning US pros only find the green 33% of the time with these shots, so why should I do better?"

Ironically (within the context of this discussion), the multiple Tour event winners rarely have to hit a 3 iron into a green because they're long enough not to have too! When you can hit a 6 iron accurately 190 yards, they'd need to hit a very short drive in the first place on a par four if they're hitting a 230 yard second, or they're going for a par 5 in two.

Also regarding this, and I certainly do not appear to come across rude, (this is just a testy one to get you to look at it from another angle) the last time I checked PGAtour.com there were no stats showing how many greens pro's had hit with a 3 iron from 190 yards out, so I feel that this "statistic" may be one invented to support your argument (he said, in a friendly manner!)

But then when all that is said, at the end of your own post you say:

"As long as I'm not in the next county (or even just the woods) I think its better to commit to the drive and take my chances with the rough because ironically I think my chances of finding the fairway will be better that way anyhow".

Which shows that you think well about your shots when you let yourself.

It's maintaining those good thoughts that are hard.

[GregJWillis]

Re: The Driver obsession

hi Brian
i remember Trevino and Seve playing St Andrews in a one club challenged and Trevino had a 5 iron and Seve a 6 iron if i remember right( it was in the 70s)
Trevino shot a 70 and seve shot a 69 to win by one shot, the had to putt with the same club too...

Reminds me of the POD cast I did here...skip to the exact middle, and this is a story about my Great Uncle - EK 1-club challenge.

http://cdn.libsyn.com/golftuitiononl...olFlemming.mp3

[bdbl]

Re: The Driver obsession

I see your points. I did "get on one" a bit with my post. I tend to do that!

Me too Neil, but I hope neither of us takes it personally

If, on the tee, your one and only thought is "hit the fairway" and then you let the shot go, you will hit it there more often than not, regardless of the club in your hands. If your thoughts on the tee are "hit the fairway................take the club back nice and steady, don't miss the fairway, keep your head down, steer it down there, lead with the hands, transfer the weight" then it is not the fact that "hit the fairway" has made you become tense and steery, it is the destructive thoughts that followed.

Totally agree. At the moment I'm trying to move away from the second part of that paragraph to "just let it go"; I'll extend my thinking to "just let it go and hit the fairway"

As a couple of side points:

"However even if I could guarantee that I'd be left with a 3-iron or rescue 190 yarder I know that multiple tour winning US pros only find the green 33% of the time with these shots, so why should I do better?"

Ironically (within the context of this discussion), the multiple Tour event winners rarely have to hit a 3 iron into a green because they're long enough not to have too! When you can hit a 6 iron accurately 190 yards, they'd need to hit a very short drive in the first place on a par four if they're hitting a 230 yard second, or they're going for a par 5 in two.

Also regarding this, and I certainly do not appear to come across rude, (this is just a testy one to get you to look at it from another angle) the last time I checked PGAtour.com there were no stats showing how many greens pro's had hit with a 3 iron from 190 yards out, so I feel that this "statistic" may be one invented to support your argument (he said, in a friendly manner!)

As if I would , well actually under a lot of circumstances I would make up figures just to win an argument, but not on this occasion; the figures are based on some career stats I saw for Brad Faxxon and the 33% just stuck. I'll look it up if I get the time or get bored but the figure probably related to success rate with a 3 iron and the 190 yards just crept in from the other post.

But then when all that is said, at the end of your own post you say:

"As long as I'm not in the next county (or even just the woods) I think its better to commit to the drive and take my chances with the rough because ironically I think my chances of finding the fairway will be better that way anyhow".

Which shows that you think well about your shots when you let yourself.

It's maintaining those good thoughts that are hard.

Yup. No arguments with that. All along I was merely suggesting that an over emphasis on accuracy leading to those destructive thoughts "hit the fairway................take the club back nice and steady, don't miss the fairway, keep your head down, steer it down there, lead with the hands, transfer the weight" - could be damaging.

[bdbl]

Re: The Driver obsession

Hmmmm! Yes some good points there Robin.

Quite often it's a matter of putting course management before ego. If I consider a few holes that I know are particularly troublesome and hazardous.

I think I've posted in the past about my bogey (sorry) hole - a longish up hill Par 5 that 95% of the time plays into a strong prevailing wind and has a nastily placed water hazard.

Even once I got over my habit of swinging as hard over the top as possible because of my perceived need for distance I used to mess this hole up; eight, nines, tens because my ego insisted on trying to carry the hazard.

Now I lay up; take 2 more to reach the green with a chance of a Par and the liklihood of a bogey - even if I make a mistake (3 putt or miss my approach) I can now walk away with a 7. I get at least a shot on this hole - two if I claim the full slightly Slats like 22 - so the course management is a no-brainer.

Which probably explains why it took me so long to adopt it.