What if lessons don't help?

[kglade]

I started learning golf about 8 weeks ago. I got the Magic Moves book and went to the driving range. I was hitting straight shots with some slight drift to the right at the end (I'm a righty), but well within 10 yds of my target line. My shots were a little short, hitting a 5 iron about 120 yards.

Everyone I talked to, and most of the online forums recommend "take a lesson" so I did. At the first lesson I learned to slice dramatically, I mean the ball goes as far right as it does down the target line, and have not been able to get back a straight shot. I went to the range every day for a week and could not hit straight. So I took another lesson. Worse slice. The pro had me change my grip, change my stance, change my ball position, change my takeaway. Nothing helped. Now, I have forgotten what a good swing feels like, and cannot hit a straight shot at all. I can;t get back to my original swing. Now, the pro wants me to get my clubs extended (I'm 6 ft 4 in, floor to wrist is 36 inches, and have a set of standard length clubs).

So, my question, what do I do if lessons don't help? I have tried to help myself but can't find a workable, repeatable swing. I have read 5 books and rented 4 videos about golf swings. I have visited Greg Willis' website and tried his drills. I bought a practice net so I could hit at home every day. Do I invest in swing training aids? Do I buy a video capture card for my PC so I can use V1 Home to look at my swing? Do I tell the pro to take a hike?

I really don't want to give up golf but feel that if I will always slice then I won't enjoy the game much. Oh, I forgot to mention, when I try to correct my slice I hit a ground ball. I played a 3 par 9 hole course today and gave up keeping score after hole #5. My shots were alternately slice, grounder, slice, grounder.

Any suggestions from someone who has been there?

Ken

[slater170]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

I started learning golf about 8 weeks ago. I got the Magic Moves book and went to the driving range. I was hitting straight shots with some slight drift to the right at the end (I'm a righty), but well within 10 yds of my target line. My shots were a little short, hitting a 5 iron about 120 yards.

Everyone I talked to, and most of the online forums recommend "take a lesson" so I did. At the first lesson I learned to slice dramatically, I mean the ball goes as far right as it does down the target line, and have not been able to get back a straight shot. I went to the range every day for a week and could not hit straight. So I took another lesson. Worse slice. The pro had me change my grip, change my stance, change my ball position, change my takeaway. Nothing helped. Now, I have forgotten what a good swing feels like, and cannot hit a straight shot at all. I can;t get back to my original swing. Now, the pro wants me to get my clubs extended (I'm 6 ft 4 in, floor to wrist is 36 inches, and have a set of standard length clubs).

So, my question, what do I do if lessons don't help? I have tried to help myself but can't find a workable, repeatable swing. I have read 5 books and rented 4 videos about golf swings. I have visited Greg Willis' website and tried his drills. I bought a practice net so I could hit at home every day. Do I invest in swing training aids? Do I buy a video capture card for my PC so I can use V1 Home to look at my swing? Do I tell the pro to take a hike?

I really don't want to give up golf but feel that if I will always slice then I won't enjoy the game much. Oh, I forgot to mention, when I try to correct my slice I hit a ground ball. I played a 3 par 9 hole course today and gave up keeping score after hole #5. My shots were alternately slice, grounder, slice, grounder.

Any suggestions from someone who has been there?

Ken

hi ken
8 weeks!
have you heard the saying "rome wasnt built in a day"
i mean this with the greatest respect if your only getting 120yds with a 5iron then you didnt have a good swing to start with!
stop reading everything under the sun about golf swings youll just end up mashing your brain pick one school of thought and stick to it
pro's arent interested in ball flight at the beginning they are into getting your fundamentals ingrained.
i was where you are now just under 2 years ago and now i regularly shoot 80's and 90's.
hope this helps

[mr3856a]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

First and foremost, don't give up. Everyone goes through ups and downs in this game. There have been many times I thought about giving up, and I am so incredibly glad I never did.

The instructor may have a bigger picture that's hard for you to see. Have you asked him? "What is it you see in my swing? Where are we trying to go?" It's hard because sometimes it's a long journey and unless someone gives you a map, the trip may be frustrating. In other words, he may have specific reasons for everything he's doing with you, but he just might not have told him.

Or he may stink, it's hard to say. Talk to the guy and get a sense of what he's trying to do.

One thing is for sure, if you're 6'4, standard length and lie clubs will definitely not work for you. You will have to learn to make corrections in your swing to make up for the short length and the too-flat lies. A lie that is too flat will only accentuate your slice: because of your height, the toe of the club is likely lower than the heel, which only helps you hit the ball right.

How long have you been playing? The more information you can provide, the more people can suggest things.

I think you can never read too much about the game. You CAN, however, get too many ideas in your head.

This book is, for my money, the best $10 I ever spent on my golf game:

http://www.amazon.com/Harvey-Penicks...e=UTF8&s=books

No matter what the condition of your game, this book will give you some fantastic insights into the game and the fundamentals of the swing. It's also easy to read, completely non-technical, and very enjoyable.

There's my 1.5 cents. More will follow from others I'm sure.

[jamesh]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Respectfully, I think 8 weeks isn’t nearly enough time to work these problems out. I have been taking lessons all summer. I have made some headway in many areas – and there are still many more areas where I have a long way to go.

I think a video of your swing would be beneficial to you. You may not be doing what you think you are doing – a video of my swing shocked me and had me running for lessons.

I am 6’1 and when I play with my friends who are 5’4 and we are using the same standard length clubs I think there is something definitely wrong with the picture.

You are too new to the game to get a set of custom fitted clubs, I think, because your swing will still change, dramatically for that matter. Perhaps through eBay or elsewhere you can find a set of clubs that are the right length for your size. A club fitter may be able to tell you the size of clubs you need – there are knowledgeable club builder on this site that would be better able to direct you.

As for your problems, I don’t think they are so exceptional – at 8 weeks you ought to expect heaps of problems, and don’t be so hard on yourself! I have thought of quitting many times, a few times in the middle of a round, I thought what is the point? I have also stopped keeping score, since my score was so high I had trouble recounting all of my strokes. A few times I have left the driving range, and gave my balls away. Without these struggles are successes wouldn’t mean so much.

I think lessons are the definite way to go, the more you know about the game, through books, etc you will have a better idea on how to assess the skills of your instructor.

The one problem I have noticed with some instructors is that some of them have been teaching for soooo long, they are bored, and they will teach you to “your” level. If they know that you are motivated and knowledgeable, then you may get better service. For example, at lessons the golf instructor had my girlfriend hitting a ball with a three wood that was teed impossibly high – I couldn’t of hit it – I mentioned politely that perhaps there was a more suitably sized tee; he smiled and found one. This was after 10 minutes of skied balls, and her frustration was mounting.

Sometimes it can be a long haul – hang in there and don’t be too hard on yourself – it is supposed to be enjoyable!

james.

[bill reed]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

hi
i agree 8 weeks is not enough to to get a good swing set up.
i remember we have a 168 yard par 3 and i use to use a driver to reach it when i first started, now i hit 6 iron.
but it took time and lots of work to get ride of the bad things i had picked up learning how to swing out books without fully understanding what i was doing wrong and doing things like ajusting my grip and stance to stop me hitting a slice when it was my out to in swing that was at fault and it took a pro to talk me unto ajusting my swing as i thought i had a good swing but i was so wrong,
i think i'm a good golfer now buts its only because i was taught the basics and fundmentals early, it tool me 6/7 years before i changed and after i did i found i could hit shots i never could pull off before. that was over 20 years ago and i am so glad i met the pro back them.
bill

[kglade]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Wow, I got a lot of great responses. First and foremost, thanks to Slater170, MR3856a, Jamesh and Bill Reed for their responses.

It is apparent to me now that I posted my original message while in a bad mood - thus, the pessimistic tone.

I had another lesson today. Both the pro and I had come to the same conclusion independently - start over with the fundamentals. So we did. The lesson was held on a windy day with the wind blowing left to right so even a straight shot would curve right. The pro had me practice many drills and ended up by showing me how to hit a hook so that the wind would straighten it out. I was successful about half the time. He told me that my swing plane is OK but for some reason I have an open face at impact - even though grip and stance, etc. look fine. With an intentionally over closed clubface, I hit the ball straight or hooked.

He also told me that his wife took about two years to get a decent swing. This agrees with Slater’s experience.

Mike, I agree with you about the Penick book. I have already read it twice.
Regarding club length, I got my information from the club fitting wizard at the pinemeadowgolf website. When I put in my info, they recommended standard length. Since I am able to hit some shots well, I tend to agree. However, poking around online, I saw that I could get my entire set lengthened for less than US$50, or I could do it myself for about half that. Is there a downside to getting clubs lengthened? If the pro recommends one inch, can I get them done two inches just in case and choke up if needed?

The reason I thought my 8 weeks should have been enough was that I went to the range almost every day, sometimes twice a day, so I crammed about 40 practice sessions into the last two months. Put that together with the fact that I hit straight after my first week and I think you can see why I thought that a couple of lessons would get me to some minor level of skill. I now see that it may take years.

Bill, thanks for sharing your experiences so I feel better that it is not just me.

In hindsight I think my instructor was fooled by my original swing that gave fairly good results, so he approached me as needing minor tweaking. Now, I think he sees that I need the complete overhaul.

The crazy thing about this game is that earlier this week I played the same par 3 course and was happy with my game. I had poor scores but this was due to under-swinging and coming up short, or over-swinging and going past the green, or missed 6 foot putts. All of this was interesting and challenging to me. I could imagine how I could get better with time by developing a better feel for distance, better reading of the greens, etc. My game yesterday with alternate slices and grounders was just plain annoying - bad scores with no idea how to get better -thus, the pessimistic post. Of course, the part I did not put in my first message was that two months ago I signed up for a business golf outing on Oct 4 with some business people I really want to meet. I was planning on playing just well enough to be unnoticeably bad. Now, I am worried that I will make a complete fool of myself.



Anyway, thanks again for all the info and support.



Ken

[forelife]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

lessons may not help, I know a few self taught golfers that can play. They all took a similar path in building their swings and the one MAJOR quality they all share is they all have a very solid golf grip, it's the one thing they focused on from day one.

[TeachingPro]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

This is a simple thing to answer:

If lessons don't help, you're with the wrong teaching professional or reading the wrong content in magazines & books.

[msklar92]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

what your pro is doing actually sounds correct. since you are slicing the ball your have an outside inside swing path with an open club. Sooo, the first thing you pro is working on is getting you to release the club face - squaring it up, hence the hook. Once you are able to hook and get the feel for squaring up the club face, I assume he will work on club path which should straighten out your ball flight.

[Mox]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

What if lessons don't help?

But they do!

Perhaps not instantly, but over time, there is nothing that beats proper instruction.

[vp27519]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Ken,

If this pro is right for you, stick with him. You need to be able to speak your mind and vice versa. Trust that he is doing the right thing for you.

Set your goals and have effective practice plans.

Be committed and patient to these changes. You will start seeing results - trust it.

After every lesson I have Ken, I write down the fundamentals. If I have any doubts between lessons I refer to my notes.

I would stop reading snippets of information on the swing and only listen to your coach. I am quite an analytical person and I've found it a hindrance to read information about the swing. It plays on my mind and creates doubt. Thus, at times not being able to trust what coach and I are working on.

It's a great game.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Just a guess on my part, since I do not know what you did physically before taking up golf. Do you think your slice issue could be attributed to your body developing your swing muscles? If the muscles that you use to swing a club are not developed, your slice could be the result of your swing muscles going through a transition period while they are being (more) developed. Try relaxing everything from the shoulders down to your grip, especially your forearms and and try some easy, slow, 1/2-3/4 speed swings. See if this helps straighten out your shot pattern. GJS

[forelife]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Just a guess on my part, since I do not know what you did physically before taking up golf. Do you think your slice issue could be attributed to your body developing your swing muscles? If the muscles that you use to swing a club are not developed, your slice could be the result of your swing muscles going through a transition period while they are being (more) developed. Try relaxing everything from the shoulders down to your grip, especially your forearms and and try some easy, slow, 1/2-3/4 speed swings. See if this helps straighten out your shot pattern. GJS

The slice is a swing flaw there's no doubt about that and i agree that relaxing and slowing down will help straighten out the shot, i also believe that one must understand what causes a slice

[wildwilly911]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

i don't believe the pro is trying to teach to to draw (hook) the ball, that's crazy your just starting out, he should be working on tempo and contact, every ones swing is different and he should be working on what fits you,grip is the biggest thing with ball flight (weak normal strong) stand with your arms relaxed at your side witch way is the back of you hand facing, this will give you an idea of how you grip the club, facing more forward youll need a stronger grip.being as tall as you are you probably do need longer clubs.you should only be working on one or two thing right now and that should be tempoand a balanced finish, and solid ball conact, (in 5 to 10 years from now when you get that down to a pat then you can start to work the ball purpously left and right lol just kidding). oct. 4th just go and golf and have a good time dont fill your head with so many thoughts that you couldnt posibly hit the ball descent, golf is suposed to be fun, go drink some brews with the boys and have fun, there probebly not any better than you any way.

[BrianW]

Re: What if lessons don't help?

Ken,

It's true what you are being told, a good repeatable golf swing takes time and practice but you should soon be in a position to see some real progress.

I would question whether you are using the right coach though, you do not seem to be clear on what he is telling you or what you are trying to achieve. I suggest you tell him that and if it seems no clearer afterwards then consider a different one.

Don't feel isolated, just about all golfers slice when they start and around 75% of them never stop, they just use band aids to plaster over the problem. I wont confuse you by trying to explain why you are slicing and what to do about it now but if you need some further help then please ask.

The best advice I can give you now is to practice with your 7 iron, forget the other clubs until you have created a good swing with it, the swing is the same with all the other clubs, the only difference is ball position and the length of the clubs, the swing speed and shape will be the same.

Keep up the lessons and practice, play some par 3 golf and enjoy your self.