Swing style

[ReefBoy]

Hi guys,

A few months ago I found Stan Utley's book on the art of the short game. It was a big revelation to me and on applying the techniques I started to get immediate results. I have since come across Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth" stuff and I was wondering if Stan's style of the short game was a 1 or 2 plane swing? I just haven't been able to work it out. I have been developing a 1 plane swing for my power game and it just feels so different to the short game stuff. I am not sure if I am actually working with 2 different swing styles or it is just all in my head.

By the way I am a new golfer(9 months so far) so I don't entirely trust my felt sense yet of what I am doing.

Christopher

[LowPost42]

Re: Swing style

Utley is very rotary.

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

Utley is very rotary.

Thanks for the reply.

Both swing planes, to my understanding are rotary, but different. The 1 plane swing is rotary in the torso where as the 2 plane swing is rotary in the pelvis. Both get the same rotation(back facing the target in the full swing) in the shoulder position at the top of the back swing but the mechanism of achieving this is fundamentally different. So which do you think it is?

Christopher

[LowPost42]

Re: Swing style

What I meant is that as I understand Utley, his method is very inside to square to inside, versus chasing down the target line. Utley putts on the arc (open the face going back, close it coming through) versus the straight-back-straight-through stroke.

But if I had to classify I would say that Utley is more one plane than two.

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

What I meant is that as I understand Utley, his method is very inside to square to inside, versus chasing down the target line. Utley putts on the arc (open the face going back, close it coming through) versus the straight-back-straight-through stroke.

But if I had to classify I would say that Utley is more one plane than two.

And yet in the pitching he is very upright and rotating with the pelvis which is classic 2 plane. I would love to see some video from behind of Stan hitting a full swing pitch shot. I think that would clear up the issue by watching the club movement.

Christopher

[golfndawg]

Re: Swing style

I've recently gone to a 1ps, I thought I had done this before but was still mixing 1&2p moves.......

Maybe nothing to do with this post but I thought it was a good time for me to express my thoughts. With a 1ps to me it feels like ( and what FEELING) I can throw my right hand and shoulders as hard as I want from the top with the right elbow back, that so called OTT MOVE, if anyone has a problem with OTT,they should jump on this band wagon. Totally takes all the thinking out of the swing. I've done the 2ps forever trying to still understand......(To many thoughts) - Hip bump, drop the club into the slot ,hold the shoulders back,ETC....(GEEEZ) Taking me way to long to understand that I can actually use my right shoulder and arm and hand in the swing, compared to pulling with the left side.

Anyway, played last night with this swing after hitting balls on the range for 2 days and shot 1 over, I had some funny ones because I was dropping the right shoulder ( and that is pulling) no good in 1ps.

I'm done, just had to vent .

[LowPost42]

Re: Swing style

I'm still a one planer due to limited flexibility - I have to feel like I'm swinging two plane just to get on plane! However, it's a pretty cool thing to simply turn back, set my arms and just turn left as fast as I can while the ball rockets off...

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

I've recently gone to a One Plane Swing, I thought I had done this before but was still mixing 1&2p moves.......

Maybe nothing to do with this post but I thought it was a good time for me to express my thoughts. With a One Plane Swing to me it feels like ( and what FEELING) I can throw my right hand and shoulders as hard as I want from the top with the right elbow back, that so called OTT MOVE, if anyone has a problem with OTT,they should jump on this band wagon. Totally takes all the thinking out of the swing. I've done the Two Plane Swing forever trying to still understand......(To many thoughts) - Hip bump, drop the club into the slot ,hold the shoulders back,ETC....(GEEEZ) Taking me way to long to understand that I can actually use my right shoulder and arm and hand in the swing, compared to pulling with the left side.

Anyway, played last night with this swing after hitting balls on the range for 2 days and shot 1 over, I had some funny ones because I was dropping the right shoulder ( and that is pulling) no good in One Plane Swing.

I'm done, just had to vent .

It is interesting that you mention using the right hand and arm in the swing(unless I am not reading this properly) because I was under the impression that the 1 plane swing the arms are passive. The power is generated by the rotation of the torso and the arms just come along for the ride(moving with the torso). Well that is the feel I have when I hit those nice clean shots, but now that I think about it it can't be that passive as you still need to move the arms through the take away distance.

I think I need another coffee.

Christopher

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

I'm still a one planer due to limited flexibility - I have to feel like I'm swinging two plane just to get on plane! However, it's a pretty cool thing to simply turn back, set my arms and just turn left as fast as I can while the ball rockets off...

Yes I agree there is noting quite as good as a sweet contact.

Could you please expand on what you mean by feeling like your swinging 2 plane to get on plane. I have had the same thought in the back of my mind at times but just pushed it away due to my inexperience.

Christopher

[golfndawg]

Re: Swing style

I'm still a one planer due to limited flexibility - I have to feel like I'm swinging two plane just to get on plane! However, it's a pretty cool thing to simply turn back, set my arms and just turn left as fast as I can while the ball rockets off...

Hey LP

I am hooked on this swing, I watched alot of Mike Lebauve, little 1:30 sec vid's and it made all the sense to me why alot of things don't work and why things do.......I'll never go back

[golfndawg]

Re: Swing style

It is interesting that you mention using the right hand and arm in the swing(unless I am not reading this properly) because I was under the impression that the 1 plane swing the arms are passive. The power is generated by the rotation of the torso and the arms just come along for the ride(moving with the torso). Well that is the feel I have when I hit those nice clean shots, but now that I think about it it can't be that passive as you still need to move the arms through the take away distance.

I think I need another coffee.

Christopher

Before I have always been a puller (left side) which would get my hands/arms away from my body ( somewhat getting stuck,under plane). I feel like now as I rotate on the downswing, there is no dipping and I can throw everything from the top.......I'm still fairly new at this but it's working so far with what I want do.....I feel like I can unlease the right side and BOUYA already gained distance (CRAZY)

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

Before I have always been a puller (left side) which would get my hands/arms away from my body ( somewhat getting stuck,under plane). I feel like now as I rotate on the downswing, there is no dipping and I can throw everything from the top.......I'm still fairly new at this but it's working so far with what I want do.....I feel like I can unlease the right side and BOUYA already gained distance (CRAZY)

OK. I get it now. As you are keeping your right elbow closer to your side, you can give it more with the right arm and still maintain and on plane or inside plane swing. Cool.

But just bringing it back to my original question, what swing type is Stan Utley advocating in his short game book?

Christopher

[LowPost42]

Re: Swing style

Yes I agree there is noting quite as good as a sweet contact.

Could you please expand on what you mean by feeling like your swinging 2 plane to get on plane. I have had the same thought in the back of my mind at times but just pushed it away due to my inexperience.

Christopher

I mean that there is a gigantic difference between feel and real. I feel like I'm really lifting my arms up high (à la 2 plane) but this only results in getting them into a great 1 plane position. Otherwise, if I don't, I drag them under plane.

[ReefBoy]

Re: Swing style

I mean that there is a gigantic difference between feel and real. I feel like I'm really lifting my arms up high (à la 2 plane) but this only results in getting them into a great 1 plane position. Otherwise, if I don't, I drag them under plane.

You know what your saying here exactly mirrors the feel I have had with some of my better shots. It is great to get the idea that chasing that feel isn't wrong.

Just curious what happens to your shot when you drag under the plane?

Christopher

[LowPost42]

Re: Swing style

You know what your saying here exactly mirrors the feel I have had with some of my better shots. It is great to get the idea that chasing that feel isn't wrong.

Just curious what happens to your shot when you drag under the plane?

Christopher

When I'm under plane, I'm far too flat and my arms get too deep and stuck behind me. This inevitably brings me across the line at the top (if I get that far) and leaves me no choice but to come out to in through the ball. My arms are glued to my chest, and they have no choice but to be flung off on the downswing. I have to stop my rotation to allow my hands to catch up, but the result is always a slice or a pull, because I can't get through square.

Do yourself a favour - don't do golf like I've done golf. I've focused on the minituae rather than making sure my grip, stance and posture were sound. Just this winter I was introduced to one small grip change that's totally changed my feel for the club for the better. Much more control. As my coach likes to needle me - my swing is good enough to shoot a couple over par. I need to work on my fundamentals (grip/stance), my short game feel, and my mental game.

SO: Find someone who can put you into a great stance for your body. Find someone who can say with certainty that your grip is great. Not good, but great. Perfect those things as much as you can. Learn how you're supposed to hit the ball and do it. For the love of your game, don't get caught up in mechanics and positions and sequences. You'll be much further ahead to practice the tee drill (put a tee in the ground so that its top is level with the top of the grass 3" in front of your ball, then swing to hit both your ball and tee) with a good grip and good fundamentals, focused on the spot you want your ball to go to, than you will thinking about where your hands are at 9 o'clock and what your right knee is doing and how to bump your hip but turn your pockets and stay in the barrel while stacking your tilt and sliding enough but not too much.

Trust me. I shoot in the 90's, have broken 90 only one time (albeit in a tournament) and for a coach to say my swing is good enough to shoot 74, I think I've enough authority to say that my route is not a fun one, or a good one.