Pitching, chipping & wrist action

[Dariusz J.]

Gents,

I do apologize if this topic has already been covered on the Forum. Nevertheless, I guess it's a very important thing to understand and to follow, thus, I let myself to ask for our Forum Experts' opinions...
I am a recent believer of some of Pelz theories, however, in search of maximum simplifications (simplier = better) I have divided short game shots (from 70 meters range) into 2 general categories: bump&run chip shots and lob pitches. Provided the way to the pin is relatively flat (let's assume our ball lays always on short grass) I have found that the most effective way to reach the pin area are bump&run chip shots executed from 7:30 hands position and the club shaft parallel to the ground; clubs used are from AW (GW) to 6 iron and the distance intervals amount to ca. 5 meters each club. I use Pelz open stance with the ball moved back and both feet open (ball is located in front of right outside ankle). All is great till this moment - now a serious dilemma - what to do with the wrists ? According to the 'dead hands' theory I understand that the left wrist should be all the time flat because any of wrists' help will screw the distance feel. However, flat wrist IMHO kills the very feel of the shot. What is your advice ?
Last but not least - opposite to chip shots, my lob pitches (mainly done by LW and SW from shorter distances than 30 meters) are intuitive as regards distances; I use wrist help to all those shots (the biggest of course in sand blast shots or flop shots) and although I am not always very precise, feeling of the shot is outstanding. It's not any problem for me to put the ball on the green from any lie.
As you see, I use the mix of wrist techniques but I really can't say which is more effective for me. Looking for some help here, since my short game simply sucks comparing to my long game...

Thanks & cheers

[GoNavy]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Rather then concerning yourself with the wrist, the better solution is to concern yourself with shaft angle at impact, chips should ALWAYS have the top of the shaft leaning towards the hole, this in effect traps the ball between club and ground, having stiff wrist, will now provide you with the consistancy you are looking for, where the length of backswing will produce similiar rersults for contact. I use basically the same stroke for all chips, and vary the roll out by club. My PW is 1:1, meaning flies in the air the same distance it will roll out, 9I is 2:1, rolls twice as far as in the air, 8I is 3:1 and so on through out, this off course is on flat surface, downhill is will roll more, uphill less. Doing this takes the feel aspect out of the game, you must just develope a consistant stroke and shaft angle, plus do the math. Anytime you use alot of wrist action, it's going to vary a great deal from shot to shot, timing becomes too critical, release a little early and now your shaft angle is straight up/down, so you just added loft to your shot, ball goes higher, rolls less, now your short of the hole, release late, shafts leans way too far forward, and the opposite happens. So work on the a consistant sroke

[Dariusz J.]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Thanks, GoNavy...this is the answer I was looking for. One more thing - those ratios roll/air; you wrote that with 9i you obtain 2:1 ratio - how it's possible that with only 4* difference (i.e. 8i) you obtain 3:1 ratio ?
And what are your distance dispersion patterns ? 5 meters difference between clubs with a 7:30 Pelz swing (shaft parallel to the ground) in chipping ?

Thanks again

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Hi

Pitching is a shortened version of the full swing so the wrists should rotate through the shot.

The best advise I ever had for chipping was no wrist rotation and to keep the back of my left hand pointing at the target for as long as possible on the follow through.

Finally, don't look up until the ball has gone and always "believe" that you will sink your chip or pitch in the cup.

Regards
Brian

[takinitdeep]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Not looking up is a key, how many shots have been ruined by an otherwise good stroke by the person looking up/pulling up. I like Corey Pavin's exaggerated head down position when it comes to chipping.

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

I liked the advice from Leslie King on this, he suggested that we look up early because we have released power in the shot too early, this makes us want to look at the results of that effort. If we accelerate through the shot we are less inclined to look up.

[bdbl]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

I liked the advice from Leslie King on this, he suggested that we look up early because we have released power in the shot too early, this makes us want to look at the results of that effort. If we accelerate through the shot we are less inclined to look up.

Hi Brian

I have been trying to follow Leslie King's 12 lessons for the full swing and would be fascinated if there was something similar for the short game that you could recommend.

Thanks

Robin

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Hi Brian

I have been trying to follow Leslie King's 12 lessons for the full swing and would be fascinated if there was something similar for the short game that you could recommend.

Thanks

Robin

Hi Robin,

Have you been using the website or have you the book "The swing Factory" ?

For the short game I would suggest Dave Pelz, his two books "The short game bible" and "The putting bible" are the best I have read, a bit deep and lots of statistics but they are good.

[bdbl]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Hi Brian

The website.

I was hoping to see the Swing Factory in paperback before I annoyed the missus by adding to the library plus I'm naturally mean

EDIT:

Wow there it is on Amazon - £10 - no excuses now.

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Hi Brian

The website.

I was hoping to see the Swing Factory in paperback before I annoyed the missus by adding to the library plus I'm naturally mean

EDIT:

Wow there it is on Amazon - £10 - no excuses now.

Robin,

Have a look at this site. It has a lot of Dave Pelz short game and putting drills in it.
Hope it helps?

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...484171,00.html

[bdbl]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Thanks Brian

In the past I've found Pelz's details and statistics a bit off putting but I'll definitely take a look; I'll also have a look at the Swing Factory because the way King puts things strikes a chord with me.

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Thanks Brian

In the past I've found Pelz's details and statistics a bit off putting but I'll definitely take a look; I'll also have a look at the Swing Factory because the way King puts things strikes a chord with me.

They normally have the Swing Factory in Waterstones. When the wife is spending the odd hour or two in M&S check it out

That web site has a lot of Pelz instruction in a fairly straight forward format. Ask if you need any help.

[takinitdeep]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Brian:
Wow, not accelerating through the shot is an excellent point. When I free wheel it and allow everything to go through, crisp shots.
Thanks so much friend.

[bdbl]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

[quote=BrianW]They normally have the Swing Factory in Waterstones. When the wife is spending the odd hour or two in M&S check it out
quote]

Hi Brian

They also have it the local Library.

Borrowed it yesterday evening; only had time for a scan throgh so far. Its beatifully presented but at first sight it hard to see what it adds to the website - comments?

One specific point though - on the takeaway (the bit I've read in more detail) its says something like "the club-face should face the ball for the first six inches". How do you interpret that, because elsewhere LK cautions against taking the club straight back?

Robin

[BrianW]

Re: Pitching, chipping & wrist action

Hi Brian

They also have it the local Library.

Borrowed it yesterday evening; only had time for a scan throgh so far. Its beatifully presented but at first sight it hard to see what it adds to the website - comments?

One specific point though - on the takeaway (the bit I've read in more detail) its says something like "the club-face should face the ball for the first six inches". How do you interpret that, because elsewhere LK cautions against taking the club straight back?

Robin

Hi Robin,

I think they say "keep the clubface square in relation to the body" This is different to keeping it square to the ball. Think of maintaining the relationship of the clubface to your body from address as you rotate, when you are at the end of the takeaway it will be facing directly forward with the toe pointing upwards. Hope this makes sense.

I think the graphics and layout make the book easier to follow.