“Optimum” putting speed

[Shorty]

Dave Pelz recommends a putting speed such that if the ball was allowed to pass by the hole, the ball would stop 17 inches beyond (an average value). This was first reported in his book Putt Like the Pros, and expanded in his Dave Pelz’s Putting Bible book. Also in Golf Magazine Aug. 2006 issue, he included a graph of percentage of putts holed versus distance past the hole (see attached). Indeed the greatest percentage peaks at 70% for 17 inch distance.
I think players would appreciate knowing a tolerance on this distance, that is some trade off in distance past for less per cent of putts holed. Here’s one based on this graph: If the stopping distance is in range (12-30 inches) then the percent of successful putts will be greater than 90% of the peak percentage.

[BrianW]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Dear Shorty,

I am not sure what this episode of Dave Peltz extracts are for, are they to educate us, are you asking a question or requesting a debate. If you are extracting parts of his Putting Bible to educate would it not be better to suggest that members purchase it.

Please clarify your intent so that we may respond appropriately?

[bdbl]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Dave Pelz recommends a putting speed such that if the ball was allowed to pass by the hole, the ball would stop 17 inches beyond (an average value). This was first reported in his book Putt Like the Pros, and expanded in his Dave Pelz’s Putting Bible book. He included a graph of percentage of putts holed versus distance past the hole. On this graph, the greatest percentage does indeed peak at 70% for 17 inch distance.
I think players, however, would appreciate knowing a tolerance on this distance, that is some trade off in distance past for less per cent of putts holed. Here’s one based on this graph: If the stopping distance is in range (12-30 inches) then the percent of successful putts will be greater than 90% of the peak percentage (see attached thumbnail).

My problem here is that the more I see Pelz precised the less likely I am to buy the book(s). I have no doubt that his research is correct but it doesn't help me when I play on courses where the speeds vary from green to green and bear no relation to the practice green; as far as I can see he measures outputs not input; what appears to be succesful, not how to be succesful.

[Scragger63]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Dear Shorty,

I am not sure what this episode of Dave Peltz extracts are for, are they to educate us, are you asking a question or requesting a debate. If you are extracting parts of his Putting Bible to educate would it not be better to suggest that members purchase it.

Please clarify your intent so that we may respond appropriately?

Maybe he (or she) is a "disgruntled purchaser" of the Pelz material and is making some form of silent financially motivated protest by posting Pelz material on a free golf tuition site...

Pretty petty IMO...

Just a guess...

Cheers

[bill reed]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

hi bdbl
i dont agree that plez only measures outputs, it depends on how you look at it, both could be viewed as both inputs and outputs, as both are mesurments of putts on a hole, in his book "plez putting bible" he does show you how to be more succesful and does tell you to try and pratice on real greens but adds that he knows how hard it is to do this. the whole idea of his books is to help you understand the things that add up to making putting so hard and the best ways to cut the % of misses, this covers all types of green and how to putt on them, his clock system and why its sometimes better play further away from the hole so you have a down hill or uphill putt. i have found so many things in his putting bible that now other golf teacher seem to cover. he does go into things very deep but thats his way and his books do need to be read a few times to take most of it all in, i still pick some things up that i missed and i have read both his books 6/7 times now.
bill

[Scragger63]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Ultimately there is no right or wrong with putting, just doing whatever optimises your chances of knocking the ball in the hole consistently....

So many different things work for different people....

Pelz was a scientist and as such has taken a strict logical scientific approach...

One thing is for sure, I'm no coach and I'm simply looking for what works for me...

Cheers

[bdbl]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Hi Bill

You are probably right when you take the books as a whole.

Just to use a simple example; the 4 wedge * 3 position system others have mentioned on here clearly combines inputs (swing variations) and outputs (pitching distance).

I think I was saying "seems from the precis" to measure .... " and I think that is defensible - in isolation telling me that successful putts would have gone 17" long is not that helpful however I take your point and I'll look to reading the books.

[bill reed]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

hi again bdbl
why he says the putt should go 12 inches past the hole is any faster and if the putt lips it wont drop, the holes 4 1/2 inches but its 6 inches if you hit your putt so it passes the hole 12 inches as the ball on the lip will drop. putt the same ball but 18 inches past the hole and if it touched the same part of the lip the ball will lip out and not drop like it would if the ball was going 12 inches past.
hope you understand what i was trying to say.
bill

[BrianW]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Robin,

I purchased his two books, The Putting Bible and the Short Game Bible, mainly from the recommendations from Bill. They were a great buy, I think the short game bible did more for me. Got them quite cheap on Amazon.

[bdbl]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Brian

I think you and Bill have misunderstood me, or I was unclear in the first place, or both Thanks though for taking the trouble to respond.

Based mainly on comments from guys on here whose opinions I value and respect (and hopefully you all know who you are) I plan to get the books; my point was that Shorty's idiosyncratic posts were dissuading me from doing so.

If you, Bill and others say the books have worked for you then I'll go with that - I know that the difference between a good short game / putting day and a poor one (let alone a bad one) for me is around 8 strokes (say 28 to 36 putts), I know also that the ratio of good to poor days is about 1 to 3; so anything that changes that ratio has to worth a try.

Robin

[bill reed]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

hi again bdbl
thanks for you reply, what i was trying to do was to get you to understand there is so much in both his books and there is something for every one, the barn door putter or the straight to straight putter, the same with his short game book, if you use 2/3 or 4 wedge system, you will gain something, i really do sugest you get both book and as brian said amazon has some good prices.
the three books i read most are hogans 5 fundementals and plez putting and short game bibles.
you wont find a better book on putting or the short game anywhere.
best of luck.
bill

[Shorty]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Here’s Pelz’s explanation of the meaning of (1) ball speed, (2) “optimum” ball speed and (3) the significance of the attached figure (Fig. 8.5.2 of text):
(1) “It’s important to note here that I’m refering not to a speed but a distance past the hole. As I mentioned earlier, golfers don’t relate to speeds (velociites), which change from green to green depending on the conditons anyway. But what does not change (at least not very much) is the distance the optimum speed putts roll past the hole, which is, in a general way, a measure of how fast the ball was rolling when it reached the cup after passing through the lumpy donut.”
(2) “There is an optimum speed that applies to every putting golf. By optimum speed I mean the best speed for rolling a putt that will optimize its chances of coming to rest in the bottom of the hole.”
(3) “Every golfer should be aware of the lumpy donut, because it can influence every putt that has a chance of finding the hole. I've run countless tests through the lumpy donut, rolling putts at different speeds to see how they were affected. What I found was that the slower a ball rolls as it approaches the cup, the more often and more severely it is deflected to one side or the other and misses the hole. On the other hand, the faster a putt rolls, the more likely it will maintain its line to hit the cup, but the more likely it will lip out due to excessive speed. What does this mean to you? If you like to die your putts at the hole, understand that the lump significantly lessens your chance of holing the first putt. If you prefer jamming putts at the hole to minimize the break, realize that the extra speed you are adding can negatively affect the chances of your putt staying in the hole (if you take it too far). Figure 8.5.2 shows the middle ground between these two extremes, the dependence of the "make" percentage on speed.”

[BrianW]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Hi Robin,

No probs, I am sure you will get a lot from them, mind some of it is a bit statistical and deep but through that lots of good stuff.

Your putting game sounds quite good to me 28 is a commendable and it sounds like even on your bad days you are not doing any or much 3 putting. Well done!

[bdbl]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

Hi Robin,

Your putting game sounds quite good to me 28 is a commendable and it sounds like even on your bad days you are not doing any or much 3 putting. Well done!

Thanks, I'm lucky in that I'm no more than an "OK" putter really (see recent lag aberrations) but, if nothing else, I pretty much walk up to each putt with the belief that it will go in - I'm told that helps . Given the mental doubts and anquish I have suffered on the tee over the years thats pretty strange but they say its a game within a game.

But anyway you must put those scores that in the context of how much I have to play from short of the green I think the short game bible should be my starting point - I putt well (sub 30) when I chip & pitch well; but I don't always chip & pitch well.

btw On the subject of the tee. Last round consciously tried not to aim right on my bogey "duck hook" hole albeit easier conditions than before but was just fine - definitely something to watch out for I'm thinking too much about what might go wrong.

[Shorty]

Re: “Optimum” putting speed

In answer to the implied question “Who cares about optimum putting speed?” The short answer is “The Pros do!!” What’s the evidence of this? Here are two examples, one given by Palmer and another by Pelz.
In his book Arnold Palmer’s Complete Book of Putting, he states (p. 59):
“The rap putters score because the putt is traveling at a fair lick as it reaches the hole and is therefore much less likely to fall away from its target line. That line has to be true, of course, because the target is effectively only two balls wide. The margin for error is considerably reduced because, whereas the stroked putt will topple into the side of the hole, the rapped putt on that line will invariably jump over the edge of the hole.Most rap putters aim to putt the ball to a precise spot about eighteen inches behind and dead on line with the center of the hole.”
In his book, Dave Pelz states (p 191):
“There’s another advantage to rolling putts at the 17-inches-past speed. Simply put, it’s that by learning to roll the ball a little long, you’re much less likely to leave putts short. It’s an old joke, but true: Putts that don’t make it the hole have very little chance of going in.
I have test results that back up this finding. Look at the two putt-scatter patterns, both for 20-foot putts, in Figure 8.6.2 (see Attached). The one on the left is typical first day pattern made by amateurs at our schools: Before they learn anything about putting, they leave roughly half of their 20-footers short. The pattern on the right is typical of the Tour professional I work with, putting the same 20-footers on the same green. Notice that the pros roll virtually all of their putts past the hole, giving them twice the chance of making these putts over the amateurs, simply because they've learned a better touch for the 17 inches-past speed.”