Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

[mariner]

How is it that in golf, anytime you ever think to yourself "Right, I've got that sorted, time to practice something else" - whatever it was that you had, be it driving, chipping or putting, IMMEDIATELY goes away on a long holiday to Outer Mongolia??
I thought I'd found a putting method for life - when I changed to it I didn't 3 putt for six rounds on the spin, (it involved pacing out all your putts then taking the putter back a certain distance past your back foot) but it started to fade away, and finally in the club monthly medal last week I three-putted SEVEN greens and took 40 putts.
About a month ago I had a drive I was convinced I would never lose, it was just a shoulder turn back and a shoulder turn through, nothing else, and it made wonderfully solid contact and hit long straight shots. I stopped taking the driver to the range and concentrated on wedges only for a month - as soon as I got my wedges zeroed in, the drive went awol, turning into a weak push.
I'm just about to go to play this week's competition with the feeling that I have a 30% chance of hitting a good drive by my own standards, and will just try to stay in play, I'd give my fairway woods 80%, my short irons 75%, chipping 80% and putting 70% (meaning 100% would be the best I could play these shots)

[bulldog2k]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

Any swing change will work for a maximum of 3 rounds and a minimum of none

He also said about the impossibility of maintaining more than 300 swing thoughts in your head at any one time, and that made me laugh a lot too!

[bill reed]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

hi
i think its down to concentration or the lack off it, i think that is what make us handicap player so diffrent from the pro's and scrach golfers, the way they go through the same set up on ever shot and can almost see the shot in there minds eye, the pro's seem to be able to focus on a shot and we cant seem to for a full round only for a few holes. i like to play a round alone now and then and i try to focus on every shot and when i do i seem to play so much better, my bad shot never seem as bad as normal and i tend not to play a shot i would only hit the target once in 10 out of a 100 shots so play more the percentage shots and as a result score better.
i do find my mind drifting off and thinking off work and other thing and it is hard to focus before every shot but i think its someting you have to pratice and work on and i dont think many of us do?
bill

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

To play golf at a consistantly high level, everytime you play is pretty much highly improbable. Even the best pros in the world can't play up to their capabilities week in, and week out. We all have our "A" games, and we all have B,C, & D games. Some days our mental focus is not up to par, but we might get by with a physical game that allows us to score well. Other days it could be just the opposite. Some days the weather might impact our golf game, while other days course conditions will have positive, or negative impact on us. Little things in our personal, or work lives, a way from golf, can have an impact on how we play.The days we play extrememly well, both our mental, and physical golf game is hitting on all cylinders. These are the days we are "in the zone" so to speak.

I know I always see people practicing golf swings at the various ranges when I pull over to play a round. But, I often wonder how many of those golfers while physically hitting balls, are also practicing the mental aspect of their game. Swing practice is great, but thinking about, and hitting "golf shots" will be a better use of practice time. GJS

[LowPost42]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

hi
i think its down to concentration or the lack off it, i think that is what make us handicap player so diffrent from the pro's and scrach golfers, [b]the way they go through the same set up on ever shot and DO SEE the shot in their minds eye

I just finished reading The Elements of Scoring by Raymond Floyd, and he just confirms other things I've read.

Pros completely visualise their ballflight. The trajectory, the sound, how it reacts on the green, everything.

I've been experimenting with some mental things lately. It's quite remarkable when you focus hard on your target how the ball seems drawn there - but I've also experimented with blindly hitting shots, then watching the ball go, then closing my eyes and replaying what went on before the swing. With uncanny regularity, whatever was last in my brain is where the ball went. I even played a round where every thought was where NOT to hit it. Too many shots went right where I was thinking NOT to. Oddly, this included putts, too.

Visualisation and focusing on a positive target make for much better golf.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

You bring up a very good point LP-42. Many a time before I figured out my mistake, I would set up, and align myself to the target where I want the ball to start out when hitting a draw, or a fade. But, if my final look was at the target where I wanted the ball to end up at, as opposed to the target where I wanted it to start out towards, my ball flight would not be any where near where I wanted it to go. After I figured out to ignore the primary target when shaping a shot, I became a much better golfer. Your last look should always be where you want the ball to start towards, based on the curvature of your natural ball flight, or the shot you are trying to shape. GJS

[bill reed]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

hi
i totaly agree with both lowpost and g-junkie about the aim point and that you have to see where you want the ball to start. i hit a fade most of the time and it dont really mater if it fades 5 feet or 20 feet as most times i'll be playing of the fairway. all i do know is that the ball will fade towards my target from where i set up and aim. sometimes i can see and sort of feel the shot before i hit it and often i dont even remember the club hitting the ball, it comes of the club so clean, it just trying to do that every shot i have the problem with. one other thing i do when putting is look at the hole not the ball and i think that really helps with the pace of my putts now.
bill

[mariner]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

Well, I played the July medal yesterday, and my driving was fine, so was everything else on the physical side so I went out in 38 (which a 14 hc is well happy with) but on the back 9 my terrible mental attitude ruined any chance of even an average score, I think it was heading for 50 but I don't know because I picked up and DQ'd myself in disgust with three holes left and put the card in the bin (in lots of small peices)
It started to go wrong when I lost a ball in deep rough at 12th and had to play my provisional for a triple bogie seven, but I didn't actually lose it till two holes later when I played 4 terrible shots in a row to take a 6 at a par 3. At that point I felt all resolve drain away through my shoes, stopped caring, stopped trying, and just went through the motions at the next hole until I missed a short putt for a bogie 6 and kicked the ball off the green. Hit my next drive OOB with total apathy (it was almost deliberate) and just walked the rest of the round solely to fill in my partner's card.
I have always known that the weakest part of my game is between my ears, but this is the worst yet!
There's some strange psychological things going on here - I remember walking out of some maths exam when I was a kid because the best I could have done would have been 30-40% and I would rather get 0% than that, and I sometimes do the same thing in golf though I have no idea what this achieves.

[BrianW]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

I try and remember something Jack Nicklaus explained on how he sets himself up for a shot. He starts by looking at his target and imagining an image of his ball sat brightly against the grass in that place, he then visualises the flight of the ball that takes it there, finally he sees an image of himself making a smooth controlled swing to hit the shot.

It takes a bit of willpower to do this every time but I find it a great concentration tool when I remember it. Jack also used an image of himself making a particular shot rather than technical swing thoughts.

[Robert O' Keeffe]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

Mariner, I think we all fall into the trap of too much thinking about mechanics and swing plane etc. I have spent the last month looking for the swing that had me playing great golf all along. Then I made the mistake of trying to change my hands and release, looking for a better swing!! End result is the total loss of everything that was good and trying to repair it. We spend too much time thinking and analysing which is suicidal.

[oldwease]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

These posts are all really about the suffering which I now believe this game is intended to heap on us. I can't remember the last time my game was all in synch. Right now, my irons are excellent, but my driving poor. A couple of weeks ago, I played the first nine holes in level par. But, I really wasn't hitting the ball that well - simply holed some improbable putts.

I find it very hard to incorporate what the pro's say. For them it's a totally different game. They can focus on specific target, flight paths in a way most of us can't.

As of now, I'm striving for a genuine 'go to' shot (really a tee shot) such that I know if I swing a certain way, I'll get it in play, swinging at, say 75%. So, giving up distance for dependability. I haven't come up with it yet.

The other big thing I notice in my game, which is a mental thing, is that I always play against par rather than my handicap. For example, on the hardest hole on the course (a long par four with a truly horrendously undulating green), I probably make par or better no more than 35% of the time. Most of the time, I go for a big drive even though the penalty for missing the fairway is quite severe. As a result, I hit the fairway only about 50% of the time. My point is, why not play it as a par five - take all the pressure off the tee shot - after all, I get a shot on the hole so it doesn't really hurt my round. As a par 5, it's a pretty easy hole.

Of course, I can't do that!

[ubizmo]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

Lots of interesting stuff here, but I suppose the answer to the OP's question is really that nothing is as ingrained as our "natural" swing faults, which have a tendency to reappear when we relax our vigilance. Relaxing our vigilance may be caused by fatigue or distraction, and I suppose one distraction is preoccupation with some other aspect of the game.

So I think I have my drive in good shape; time to really focus on the mid irons. I therefore think about my mid iron shots a lot, practice them at the range, and when it's time to drive the ball I'm not so focused on that, so my old swing faults reappear. Moreover, it can take a while for us to figure out that this is happening.

In my case, here's a partial list of things that can fall apart very easily without my even realizing it for a while:

1. Posture. I get lazy about trying to keep my spine straight and head up at setup. I revert to a rounded posture.

2. Knee flex. The amount of knee flex I need is more than what feels natural, so unless I make a point of it, I'll stand with my legs too straight.

3. Balance. I tend to put too much weight on the balls of my feet.

4. Smooth backswing. I tend to rush my backswing, making it shorter than it already is.

5. Staying extended/high finish. I have a tendency to shorten my arms, pulling up into a chicken wing.

And that's just a partial list of my faults that are likely to reappear. Your list might include grip (for some reason, I seem to be very methodical and consistent about grip), stance, or a dozen other things.

The bottom line is, every stroke requires complete attention, and that's just not easy.

[bdbl]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

What a timely thread - very reassuring, thanks to all contributers.

I went to the range yesterday primarily to work with my utilities which I've not been hitting well lately and my new driver*

As ever started with some 20/30/40 yd pitches - really nice
Moved to some full wedges - straight, good distance, nice flight
Added some 8s and 7s - not A1 but I'd take them "for real"
A few utilities - better if again not the best

Got the driver out and while the ahem fade might have been larger than I'd hoped I think I could have played with it.

So far so good; whilst we might like our best across all clubs all of the time this would be fine - especially if I was putting OK

Went to the practice bunker - sand washed away in the rain and then hard packed with 1 days sun, waste of time.

Went back to the grass still with 1/3 to 1/2 a bucket to go and couldn't hit a thing, not a thing - hadn't lost one "shot", had lost them all, swing completely disappeared with no idea what I was doing.

Just went home.

* New Driver FAO Brian

Tried to comment on your journal but the comment didn't "stick". I'm a Benross fan (my utilities are Benross Escape 2G) and bought a Benross V5 last month for £80 from a shop who leant me one for a week to decide. I love it - played on Sunday (mostly rubbish - see journal) but when I caught the V5 right I was only 30yd behind a genuine big hitter rather than my usual 60; With your swing I think you'll find it just flies.

I'm still coming to terms with it as its my first brick on a stick (my old Ping was 195cc) and I'm struggling with tee height for my swing - is the sweet spot higher than I'd expect from using an old style driver?

[BrianW]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

What a timely thread - very reassuring, thanks to all contributers.

I went to the range yesterday primarily to work with my utilities which I've not been hitting well lately and my new driver*

As ever started with some 20/30/40 yd pitches - really nice
Moved to some full wedges - straight, good distance, nice flight
Added some 8s and 7s - not A1 but I'd take them "for real"
A few utilities - better if again not the best

Got the driver out and while the ahem fade might have been larger than I'd hoped I think I could have played with it.

So far so good; whilst we might like our best across all clubs all of the time this would be fine - especially if I was putting OK

Went to the practice bunker - sand washed away in the rain and then hard packed with 1 days sun, waste of time.

Went back to the grass still with 1/3 to 1/2 a bucket to go and couldn't hit a thing, not a thing - hadn't lost one "shot", had lost them all, swing completely disappeared with no idea what I was doing.

Just went home.

* New Driver FAO Brian

Tried to comment on your journal but the comment didn't "stick". I'm a Benross fan (my utilities are Benross Escape 2G) and bought a Benross V5 last month for £80 from a shop who leant me one for a week to decide. I love it - played on Sunday (mostly rubbish - see journal) but when I caught the V5 right I was only 30yd behind a genuine big hitter rather than my usual 60; With your swing I think you'll find it just flies.

I'm still coming to terms with it as its my first brick on a stick (my old Ping was 195cc) and I'm struggling with tee height for my swing - is the sweet spot higher than I'd expect from using an old style driver?

Robin, seems like a good choice, I love it.

I tee the ball fairly high, I use these grey preset castellated tees for my driver, they give you a set reference height every time.

I keep the ball around 1.5 inches inside my left heel and set my right shoulder lower than the right with a small lean to the right. This ensures I catch the ball on the upswing, the V5 then creates a nice penetrating ball flight angle. Mine has 10.5 deg loft and a regular flex shaft that suits my swing speed. The drivers quite good as well

[slater170]

Re: Why is it that we "lose" a shot we thought was ingrained?

i use the grey castellated ones but dont quite push the all the way in.
when i check the impact mark on the face it is in the upper half!
seem to just get that extra bit of carry and on friday hit a green 262yds away uphill and virtually zero roll