Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

A couple of (well made points) - the only place those clubs are legal (pre April 1990 Eye 2's) is in USGA sanctioned events.

Those covered by other ruling bodies do not recognize the lawsuit between Ping and the USGA - so R&A countries (including Canada) do not consider them conforming.

As for US Touring pros - I say use whatever the rules and conditions of competition state you can use to win. I could see, however, a clause in the conditions of comp starting to outlaw exempt clubs; stating only those manufactured in, say, 2000 or later are allowed.

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

hi Lowpost
i had always thought that only the ping eye 2 with the + or the spot were legal in comp's but now i see that in the USPA events that is not the case?
it does strike me as strange that the rest of the world pro's can't use the square grove ping eye2 clubs that (do not) have a + or a spot but in the USPA events this is alowed.
Golf has always held the high moral ground in keeping to the rules and i think this may be legal but is it moraly right??? somehow i don't think so.
i have no problem with a handicap player using what ever clubs he can get his hands on so he can at least play golf but when pro's that play for money! start bending the rules i get an uneasy feeling about it.
it sounds like the ban was put in place but could not be upheld so should then have only been applyed to pro events and let the handicap player keep using the ping eye 2 as i really dont think that a handicap player gains that much advantage over a playing partner on the same handicap.
in the hands of a pro i think there could be an advantage.
cheers
Bill

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

Ping square grooves versus iron technology that has surely moved on over the last 20 years? Ignore the moral, ethical issues and I'm not sure many pros will bother raiding the garage.

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

hi bdbl
it looks like two pro,s raided there garage for the game in Hawaii at the weekend. so they must think there is some advantage with the old pings against the newer tech wedges???
i will start checking to see if more players are using the old ping eye2. a lot of non-ping pro,s use to use the ping wedges even if there club sponser was Nike or calloway etc back when the ping eye 2s first came out.
the ping eye 2 are still recorded at the most selling golf club of all time so there is lots of them still about and i still use my ping eye 2 one iron as i have not found one to better it.
cheers
Bill

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

As a point of interest, I'm familiar with a man named Tim Hewitt - he runs My Ostrich Golf in Maine; a component and golf supply shop. He's also involved in club head design and has made the iMatch series. He had a couple of wedge heads made - one milled with box grooves cut and one milled with no grooves.

Currently there's a boatload of snow on the ground, but Tim is involved in an indoor sim league. He tested out both wedges on the launch monitor - and time and again the grooveless wedge provided more spin. He went on to say he won quite a few beers in saying the grooveless wedge spun more off a clean, dry lie.



I find it interesting that the USGA found, in their spin tests, that the only combination that produced noticeable spin out of their simulated rough was box grooves and a urethane covered ball. In other words, V grooves and U grooves (and the new radiused grooves) didn't produce a great variation out of the simulated rough - but what seemed to be more telling is that when they tested ionomer covers, surlyn covers, or any other non-urethane cover, there again wasn't a large spin difference - even with box grooves. This would indicate to me that the answer is the urethane cover, not the club. But the USGA hasn't exactly been known to make intelligent decisions regarding reigning in clubhead design.

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

hi Ben
i think you make a really good point about there not being a big diffrence in spin when playing of fairway and that the groveless wedge spun more. i know Brian had said this many times on here and where the groves do come into play if moving away grit and grass from the face just like car tyres move water of the roadway.
i also have tried a few balls over the years and they make more diffrence to spin than the clubs! but i found the balls that spin most also cut up the most so its a trade of between having a ball that lasts a round or two and a ball that last only three or four holes.
cheers
Bill

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

Boy, there's another good thread, Bill - what do you choose as an amateur: Playing more expensive balls that spin well but are often only good for a hole or two before scuffing or shredding; or a more durable ball that doesn't spin as much when hit into greens?

For myself, I've come to like the feel of a urethane ball, and it's always impressive to hit that low, checking, "one or two hops and stop" shot.

I think that just as important as the type of ball you play is to play the same make and model - given that I've seen serious performance differences between balls (ie the Pinnacle FX Long will get me 15 more yards off the driver than a Taylormade TP Black); I think that it only adds consistency to keep playing the same ball.

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

hi Ben
i really like the top flite T ball as there good value for the money.
don't spin to much so it controlable. you dont get the ball spinning back 10 feet like you do with some softer balls. also the ball last a good few rounds. i did find with the softer balls that they scuffed up badly if you were in sand or used the wedge for a high droping shot and after a couple of holes you changed balls and the ball went in the pratice bag.

i remember i had three Ping balls that were orange one side and Yellow the other and they seemed to strob in the air. i must of played about 50 rounds with each ball. i lost two into the sea trying to play to the green from the tee and the third was used so much it went out of shape. i have never had a ball that lasted that long. i think it was Calloway that made them for ping back in the late 70s or early 80s.
i loved the two colour balls but they were so hard to find in the shops. it was good in bright sunlight as it strobed and you could not miss it in the air.
cheers
Bill

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

From January 1st 2010 the new rules for groves on clubs with more than 25 deg loft apply to professional competitions. I wonder if this is the reason they are using these old clubs?

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs


Hi Brian
i know you have been telling people for a couple of years that groves don't give you spin but only help in removing grass etc from the face. it good to know that Ben's friend proved this with a club with no groves! giving more spin than a club with groves.
i know i can get lots of spin with an old wedge that has dots not groves and its no longer legal and i think it was made in the 40s and it really spins back the ball on soft greens.
i wonder if i can use that now as it 40 years before 1990.
cheers
Bill

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs

I think the biggest problem with us Bill is that we were made 40 years before 1990

A slightly abraded surface texture on the clubface will make the ball stick better and create high spin. It's only when the clubface is wet or has grass between the ball and clubface that grooves make a difference.

Re: pre 1990 ping eye clubs


hi Brian
i was only made 38 years before 1990
cheers
Bill