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  • #1

    A critique on lessons

    I have been playing golf for 55 years now. My first lessons were from my father in 1955. he taught me grip, address, alignment, backswing, downswing, and specialty shots. I was like a sponge and when I was 16 I shot a 72 and beat the ole'man-felt bad about it too.
    Well, to keep this brief, I will say I have re-tooled my swing many times over the years seeking perfection. Just a few of my teachers have been Rick Smith, Phil Ritson, a few harmons, and others whose names I have since forgotten(guess they didn't leave me with much of an impression).
    A few things about taking lessons: 1. Take detailed notes either while being taught or right after each lesson, 2. Decide what works for you before you take the lesson, tell the teacher what is good and bad about your swing/game and see if he agrees. If he agrees, make sure you don't change what is working, if he disagrees, ask him why.,3. Finally, for anything good to happen with the swing, it must be practiced...ALOT! If you think taking a lesson will be a "cure", don't waste your money. Taking lessons is a journey, a little bit here and there from various stops along the way. No one, and I do mean NO ONE has the single answer you are seeking. Remember, a little bit here and there until finally the pieces of the puzzle all fit.
    A little on practice, I was told 50 years ago that it takes 1,000 practice balls to begin to ingrain a swing change, Heck, I used to practice until my hands bled and I couldn't pick up a club for days, finally, the pieces fit and the light bulb went on like the "AHA moment" you dream about.
    Nothing good will happen without lessons and practice but be strong willed, if a teacher tells you something that doesn't make sense, ask him to explain it-if he can't to your satisfaction, ditch that teacher and that advice and go on to your next stop. Remember, teachers are people and they have their biases and faults like all the rest of us. If you find a teacher who is not willing to change your entire swing, you may have the right one......for now.
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  • #2
    Re: A critique on lessons

    Thank you Keiko. That is great advice. Can you tell us more about a good ratio pratice vs playing. Sometimes it seems that what is going great on the driving range or pratice green goes bad on the course. I am sure it has a lot to do with hitting the same shot over and over on the range but only one chance on the course. Any advice on this?

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    • #3
      Re: A critique on lessons

      If you are working on something critical to your swing and not just tweaking it, I would practice alot more than play. Use your own best judgement on how much more but certainly until you see some results.
      I am not working on anything at the moment so I play 3 times a week and practice 1 day, that seems to be a good ratio for me.
      On the range, I will warm up a little then play golf in my head, example, I will imagine I am playing a par 4, I will hit a drive then a 7 iron then take a wedge and chip. Or a par 5, I hit a drive then a 3 wood then a chip. I always aim at a given spot and never just hit to whereever and I always use alignment sticks.

      Originally posted by HHPatman View Post
      Thank you Keiko. That is great advice. Can you tell us more about a good ratio pratice vs playing. Sometimes it seems that what is going great on the driving range or pratice green goes bad on the course. I am sure it has a lot to do with hitting the same shot over and over on the range but only one chance on the course. Any advice on this?

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: A critique on lessons

        Hi Keiko
        i have played golf since the early 70s and in the 80s played most midweeks with the Scottish pro golfer David Roberson, he taught me a great deal and helped my game so much that i ended up playing of 4 only 6 years after meeting him.
        without his help i dont think i would of played under 12.
        a lot of what he taught was simple stuff like get a good grip and proper set up that lets you put the face of the club square on the back of the ball. he did not try and change my swing only to improve it
        later in the 90s i went to another golf pro who said i would have to change my stance and way i swung to play golf, i found that un-true and he never once asked at what level of golf i wanted to play only saw me swing in his shop and never hit a ball. i told him to forget it.
        I swing with an open stance Trevino style swing and love playing that way and gives me great enjoyment. now in my late 50s i am no longer aiming to try play of scratch only to play to my handicap that is now 10.
        when i was playing off 4 i had to pratice a couple of night chipping and work mostly on my short game every week and often played two rounds a week.
        now i only play weekends and very little pratice.
        i think getting lessons helps but the hard part is finding the right teacher for you.
        i went to one pro for lessons on the right way to get out the sand and it was the best £30 i have spent.
        find the right pro and then work on what he has taught you.
        like you said you have to put in the work to get the results but you have to work on the right things.
        Cheers
        Bill
        Last edited by bill reed; 11-26-2010, 12:39 AM.

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        • #5
          Re: A critique on lessons

          Originally posted by keiko View Post
          A little on practice, I was told 50 years ago that it takes 1,000 practice balls to begin to ingrain a swing change, Heck, I used to practice until my hands bled and I couldn't pick up a club for days, finally, the pieces fit and the light bulb went on like the "AHA moment" you dream about.
          Science has shown that it takes 3000-5000 reps doing it the same way in order to move the motion from not knowing you don't know, to knowing you don't know, to knowing you know, to not knowing you know. (The best analogy I've heard for this is driving - from never having sat behind the wheel, to the first few times behind the wheel, to the first time you realise you're competent behind the wheel, to the point where you don't remember parts of the trip - and you're doing it on auto-pilot).

          The other plus is that science has shown that thinking about those proper reps, seeing yourself doing them in your minds' eye, helps the process along. It sounds hokey (and while I don't dare try to simply "think and swing well", I do subscribe to the idea that what the mind will believe the body can achieve).

          I fully agree with "lessons are not an instant cure". Ya gotta do the work!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: A critique on lessons

            Originally posted by LowPost42 View Post
            Science has shown that it takes 3000-5000 reps doing it the same way in order to move the motion from not knowing you don't know, to knowing you don't know, to knowing you know, to not knowing you know. (The best analogy I've heard for this is driving - from never having sat behind the wheel, to the first few times behind the wheel, to the first time you realise you're competent behind the wheel, to the point where you don't remember parts of the trip - and you're doing it on auto-pilot).

            The other plus is that science has shown that thinking about those proper reps, seeing yourself doing them in your minds' eye, helps the process along. It sounds hokey (and while I don't dare try to simply "think and swing well", I do subscribe to the idea that what the mind will believe the body can achieve).

            I fully agree with "lessons are not an instant cure". Ya gotta do the work!

            Hi Ben
            i like your point about driving and most of us drive without even thinking, changing gear etc, and never really thinking about it.
            if you can play golf the same way and sometimes i do then you swing feeling like its in the grove and you still hit the odd bad shot but play better not thinking of the parts of the swing only where the ball will go. like driving a car and only thinking of the road ahead. not so tiring.
            cheers
            Bill

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            • #7
              Re: A critique on lessons

              There is a little mental trick, tell someone it will take 1,000 balls to make the swing change ingrained(knowing it will take much more) and as they approach 1,000 or so as they are counting more or less, their mind gives them the confidence to say, ok, i've got it now. Confidence makes the difference.

              Originally posted by LowPost42 View Post
              Science has shown that it takes 3000-5000 reps doing it the same way in order to move the motion from not knowing you don't know, to knowing you don't know, to knowing you know, to not knowing you know. (The best analogy I've heard for this is driving - from never having sat behind the wheel, to the first few times behind the wheel, to the first time you realise you're competent behind the wheel, to the point where you don't remember parts of the trip - and you're doing it on auto-pilot).

              The other plus is that science has shown that thinking about those proper reps, seeing yourself doing them in your minds' eye, helps the process along. It sounds hokey (and while I don't dare try to simply "think and swing well", I do subscribe to the idea that what the mind will believe the body can achieve).

              I fully agree with "lessons are not an instant cure". Ya gotta do the work!

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: A critique on lessons

                I know that I must have a real belief that I can sink a putt to have a good chance of sinking it.

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                • #9
                  Re: A critique on lessons

                  Originally posted by BrianW View Post
                  I know that I must have a real belief that I can sink a putt to have a good chance of sinking it.
                  Hi Brian
                  i think pratice in putting till you can putt the ball in the hole most times from 6 foot, and then work on putting from 10 foot so you always leave it under a foot from the hole. when playing a round you think you can make most putts under 6 foot and not leave a 3 putt from 10 foot. like you say if you beleve then your half way there.
                  most guys don't spend enough time on there putting. they don't plan what to work on and dont see any gains.
                  Cheers
                  Bill

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                  • #10
                    Re: A critique on lessons

                    There is some great advice in this thread. My only comment regarding lessons is that sometimes an instructor may try to fit YOU into THEIR mold. I haven't nearly been playing as long as the OP, but have tried my fair share of golf instructors.

                    In certain cases, they have tried to mold my swing into what their vision of a perfect golf swing was and this only had a negative impact on my game. Take, of instance, someone trying to change Jim Furyk's swing or Arnold Palmer's swing - two very unconventional swings - and yet their swings worked for the two of them.

                    My swing is somewhat unconventional, as well and whenever I have an instructor who tries to change my swing versus work with it and improve aspects of it to make me better, I get rid of that instructor. I have enough experience to know that one swing is not right for every player and the same goes for golf instructors.

                    One instructor may have a dramatic, positive impact on one player and be totally detrimental to another. So when it comes to golf instructors, shop around and see what feels right.

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                    • #11
                      Re: A critique on lessons

                      We have an instructor here who seems only to want clones. I went to him asking to solve a problem with my driver ( not the first time I had been to him, first time being my initial lessons when I first began golf,) To my surprise we started with set up routine with a 6 iron. Second lesson same thing. Third lesson I shanked all but 3 in an hours lesson.
                      I asked around to find that this is his usual method. Their being only him within 100 klm , I drove to the nearest Pro, he and I solved it in a 45 minute lesson.
                      No 2 swings are exactly the same. What is the closest to being the same is their position at impact. I have posted this before but it is worth a rerun.

                      http://www.pgatour.com/swingplex/00/6.../67/index.html

                      Regards, golfshooter

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                      • #12
                        Re: A critique on lessons

                        Hey golfshooter,

                        That is exactly what I was saying. Some of these instructors only want to change you into what they want instead of 1) Listening and 2) Working within the parameters of what you have already developed.

                        I'm not saying to focus or reinforce negative traits (obviously if you have a golf swing like Charles Barkley it is almost impossible to hit the ball at all), but how many instructors do you think tried to change Jim Furyk's, Arnold Palmer's or Lee Trevino's swing?

                        In some cases changing golfers into clones of one another all emulating the 'classic golf swing' is not the proper course of action for improvement.

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                        • #13
                          Re: A critique on lessons

                          To true keiko. If one is not careful it can cost a lot and not just in dollars.

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                          • #14
                            Re: A critique on lessons

                            And most of us don’t have time or money to waste.

                            My two cents. It is perfectly normal to be frustrated with your swing, your progress, your score, the process, etc. You should NOT be frustrated with your instruction. If you are not on the same page with your instructor, find another.

                            That said, sometimes you have to step out of your comfort zone in order to improve. Surely we have all had a teacher in school that we didn’t care for at first, a teacher that pushed us, and that eventually we came to respect and embrace.

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