Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

I read the book but frankly, I am afraid to put some of it in play. He advises all kinds of goofy stuff like adopting a slight reverse pivot and things like that. Frankly, I am afraid if I go trying to adopt all the unorthodox stuff I won't be able to hit my ball to the women's tee.

Right now, I am hitting really solid. That is all I need .... I guess it is "Your mileage may vary"....

Chessbum....

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Hi Mike,

Many players and coaches have 'secrets' to long hitting, solid play etc.

I believe that every human being is totally different in so many ways it would be difficult to find to players that evrything in one book works for them.

" The Inner Game of Golf" by Tim Gallwey teaches you about you inner person which is the same in everyone, we all have inner chatter etc even if were mad.

My point is work on your own game and adopt whats best for you and only you, know what works for you. Tiger Woods feels straightening his left leg at impact gives him another 20 yds when he needs it, doesn't work for me................In the words of Mr Woods quote " I listen to many teachers and throw 99% of it away, sometimes 1% works for me".


Hope this helps


Ian.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Well, I realised I'm a one-planer because even if I try to force my arms onto a different plane from my shoulders they won't do it so I read all the things he said belong with the one-plane. At the range yesterday I applied bending over more at address, keeping my hands under my chin, having the right foot fairly square and the left open, not trying to shift my weight and pronating the left forearm towards the end of the backswing.

After hitting some absolute stinking shots this week and being a beginner I didn't think I had anything to lose by trying his advice. I was hitting it great, when I hit the spot with the club face I hit a 7 iron 170 and a 5 iron 200 yards, this was without shifting my weight or putting any extra effort in and I'm only a thin 5'7 dude.

He doesn't advocate a reverse pivot, he just says that if you are going to be imperfect then it's better with a one-plane to go that way. This is because you already have a shallow, wide swing with a one-plane and you don't want to add width. It all makes sense to me what he says, like if you don't get the club pointing at the target at the top it's better to be laid-off so that you don't come over-the-top with the 1P.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Here's something I don't understand. In the 1PS you bend over more, meaning the spine is farther from vertical. But in bothe the 1PS and the 2PS the arms hang straight down. This means that in the 1PS the hands will end up a bit closer to the ground at address. And THAT means that the angle of the club shaft to the ground will be a bit less in the 1PS than for the 2PS.

If golf clubs are normally made for a 2PS, then it follows that at address the club will not be soled but the toe will be a bit up in the 1PS. Alternatively, if clubs are normally made for a 1PS then at address the heel will tend to come up in the 2PS.

Which swing are the clubs normally set up for?

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

It cracks me up. Why is it everyone thinks they are a one-planer? I guess the image is that one plane is good and two plane is bad. Read all the threads. How many people claim to be a two plane? None that I have read.

I don't think it's that easy to determine just what type of swing you have. Just because you bend over a little more and lay off your swing, does that make you a one planer? I don't think so.

What is the definitive way to know what type of swing you have. And who even cares? There are Pros using both types and there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but for some reason, everyone has to convince themselves they are a one planer.

I still say, learn the fundamentals, then adapt the AJ Truth knowledge and you will be swinging a pretty good stick. To try and remember all that mumbo jumbo on the practice tee or the playing tee is asking more than is humanly possible. Especially at most of our levels of play....

Just my humble opinion,

Chessbum....
(Incidently, I don't know if I am a 1 plane, 2 plane or 1.5 plane and don't care...hehe)

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

I'm a two-planer, if I'm anything at all, and so is Simon Woo. I spent last year trying to learn the 1PS, and couldn't do it. So this year I started over with the 2PS, and although I'm still no good, I've made a tiny bit of progress.

Actually, I think that *does* pretty much make you a one planer. By leaning a bit more and laying the swing back a bit, the swing plane and the shoulder plane coincide, and that's the definition of the 1PS.

There are variations, like the Natural Golf swing (http://naturalgolf.com), where you start with a 1PS and add a palm grip and straight line setup. And there's the "symple swing" (http://sympleswing.com/), which is something else again.

Some promoters of Natural Golf and other one-plane swings claim that the 1PS is "easier on the back" because it involves less rotation. I found the opposite to be true. The increased lean felt like a greater strain to me, and it was much harder to keep my head still, because my spine felt less stable.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

I'm a one-planer because before I applied any of this new stuff my arms and shoulders swing on the same plane and if I try to swing my arms up on a steeper plane than my shoulders they don't do it, my shouders just go steeper with em. So rather than try to change my natural swing plane it's easier to change my posture a little.

I was already standing quite far from the ball but I was standing more upright than he says for a 1P because I'm short and I needed to to keep the toe of the club on the ground. Since getting more bent over the toe is coming up a bit and I'm hooking the ball if anything so I need the lie flattening.

If you read the whole book he does give good scientific reasons for each thing he says. Being a bit of a scientist myself I think this dude has done his research and seems to be on the ball.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

That is 100% Ben Hogan, by the way. I did this on the range this week and on the course today, and I hit two real nice short irons doing it. I did find, though, that I had a tendency to open my hips as well, which led me to hit a few shots left.

Anyway, I have found that flaring the front foot open a bit leads to some very crisp irons.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Look in the mirror, baby

A 2-PS is much more vertical. I personally find that if you give someone a golf club and say "swing this," they more often than not will swing more 1-plane than 2.

I don't think about it whatsoever, I just noticed from video that I'm 1P. Totally agree with you about AJ.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

In the book he doesn't say 1P is better than 2P so there's no reason why people would want to be one rather than the other. He says that he likes the 1P better because he thinks the 2P requires more coordination and good timing (which most people lack) which you either have or you don't.

I actually have good natural coordination but I would like a swing to be as simple as possible so I don't want to fight against what my body naturally wants to do with the club, I just want to help it be consistent. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you swing it as long as you can hit the ball square-ish 90% of the time. There are many tour pro's who have weird swings and it doesn't bother them.

I also play guitar amongst my many hobbies and you can relate learning guitar alot with learning golf because you have the same kind of thing where you need to learn the basic fundamentals of the correct mechanics before you can 'let go' and let your subconcious take over. In guitar, like golf, there are many examples of some of the greatest players in the world who have unorthodox techniques. Take the famous Eddie Van Halen who holds the plektrum with his middle finger instead of the index. Many people copy him as he is/was one of the greatest of all time but people who have been around for long enough realise that Eddie is so good despite this not because of it and had he learned to use the proper technique when he started he could have been even better.

In guitar, like golf, the basics are pretty much set in stone but the more advanced techniques are debated alot because different people have success with different techniques. What you can take from this when learning golf is that you need to learn the basics but the more advanced stuff you should try everyway until you find what is right for you. Because something didn't work for you, you shouldn't criticise it and tell others that it doesn't work as for them it could be the magic thing that makes them great. And what works for you shouldn't be forced onto others and told it's the way it must be.

Sorry if this rant got a little off-topic, I just thought this insight might be useful to somebody.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Played my first round today since applying some of the things in the book. Shot my equal best so far this season (4 weeks I've been playing) of 17 over par. 71 on a 54 par course 2844 yards. The thing is I was striking the ball off the tee pretty well, I hit 12 GIR (only got 10 pars tho) and on all but one hole I didn't miss the green by more than 5 yards.

My putting wasn't very good today though and I didn't sink a single birdie putt and 3 putted several times. What made my score much worse than it should have been was an 11! I took on hole 7 where I landed in the man-eating sarlac (sand bunker) that was just short-left of the green and took 7 shots to get out! It was horrible, the bunker's face was only 3-4 feet high but then above the bunker was a steep banking probably 15 feet high and 5 out of 6 shots made it out of the bunker and rolled back in The final shot that I got out I hit as hard as I possibly could with a full swing and it made it far enough to not come back down the hill into the bunker.

I also got a 5 on hole 17 coz I lost a ball, was my one bad tee shot that I hooked. I did the back 9 in 30 even with a double bogey on the 17th.

So something is right with this book. So far what I have applied from the book is setup/posture and taking the club back so that my left arm goes across my chest and pronating the left forearm to the top of the backswing. I only hit one shot that wasn't on a line to land on the green. When I didn't hit the green I'd either hit it too fat or too thin. He says this is caused by not keeping the spine angle the same. That's something I'll work on once I have these first two swing thoughts ground into my subconscious so I don't have to think about them on the course.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

MJE - I'm with you totally. The main reason I switched over to one plane was to simplify.

I'm a bass player - with great natural rhythm - but I predicate my athletic ability on raw power vs finesse. I see the 2PS as more of a finesse/timing swing, as opposed to the 'raw strength' need of the 1PS.

Now, obviously any good golf swing requires strength, flexibility and timing, but I find the simplicity of the 1PS works much better for me - although with my 'hit' instinct still around, I wonder if I just shouldn't put more time in with the 2PS.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

Ben,

Now that you have found the 'secret' to extra yardage (you said your distance picked up 2 clubs on each club) and you understand the two swings, you should be able to make either one work for you.

Re: The Plane Truth For Golfers

I agree Gord - sometimes, just for fun at the range, I'll hit a few balls 2 plane, then hit some 1 plane. I can make both work, and get decent results with both.

Oddly enough, when I'm thinking about my swing, and trying to make a 'technical' swing, I often find myself swinging 2 plane (ie keeping the hands more in front). I can usually tell when I've done this, as I come out to in a little bit, and either pull it or fade it hard.