Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

He makes millions playing golf, and we don't?

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

Great article, thanks.

What got me thinking was this: I would have liked to see what the average practice time and playing time was for the 10 and under hdcp and the over 10 hdcp, then compare that to Tiger and the pro's. Then take the differences in the lengths of drives, GIRs, putting etc. And you can then appreciate the true differences in what it takes to get to that level.

My guess is this: The average 17 hdcper is able to spend 1 hour of practice per week, a 10 and under hdcper 3 hours per week. Both play the same at 6 hours per week. The pros practice 24 hours per week, and play (tournaments) 15 hours (assuming 1/2 make the cut - and do not count Wendsday pro-ams).

So you get a ratio of practice hours / play hours:
PRO: 1.6
AM: .33
A factor of 5!

The differences in score was (at Torry Pines for the article)
Pro: 73
Am: 96
A difference of 23 shots (per round), a 31% difference.

So the pro practices 5 times more and is 31% better.

In my expierences, I have seen an AM attempt to practice the same amount as the pros (quality aside), and in about 1 year have reduced their hdcp by 50%. And this progressed again to about 50% more the next year.

This get you to this realization (be it a very general one at best), but:

An 18 hdcp needs to practice 5 times more then they are playing for 1 year to get to a 9. And continuing the practice level, then should expect to get to about a 5 the next year, a 2 the next, then to 1 and then finally to scratch after about the 5th year.

Scratch is no means professional either, but it is simply a guage that most say, "I am successfully averaging par at golf" as an amature.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

What!!! I'm not going to get paid for playing golf? That's it, I quit.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

[QUOTE=GregJWillis]Great article, thanks.

>>What got me thinking was this: I would have liked to see what the average practice time and playing time was for the 10 and under hdcp and the over 10 hdcp, then compare that to Tiger and the pro's. Then take the differences in the lengths of drives, GIRs, putting etc. And you can then appreciate the true differences in what it takes to get to that level.<<

Hello Greg,

You hit the nail on the head. The pro's do it for a living. Most people work for a living and practice and play golf when they can. I'm one of the blessed ones. I'm 57 and retired and get to practice and play as often as my tired old body lets me. The best part is that I now live in Florida and get to play all year.

I'm new to this great game, five months under my belt. I shot a 94 yesterday, that will keep me happy for the rest of the year. It's quite possible that I will shoot a 120 tomorrow. Having said that ,I do believe that with all my practice time and playing time I will be hitting in the mid to upper 80's by this time next year. That's my goal anyway.

I played softball until I was fifty, so now I can play golf until I'm a hundred. LOL

Thanks for your input.

Have a great weekend,

Tom

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

very interesting read, thanks!

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

Practicing???

I KNEW those guys were cheating.

Practice is 15min at the range before you start your round.
I don't have time to practice more. I need a lot of time ON the course to search for my balls in the rough.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

Great response Greg!

To flip it the other way around, how many of us would be any good at our jobs if we only have a spare hour or so after playing golf all day Monday to Friday and maybe a half-day at the weekend? (nice thought that isn't it? )

To put this in perspective I imagine Tiger has probably hit well over a million golf balls in practice and play. I estimate I've probably hit about 40,000. The big, big difference is that even if I had a great swing (I wish!) I haven't hit enough shots for it to become second nature.

Anyway, there's no point beating ourselves up about not playing as good as a pro; just enjoy the game and the great shots that make us think we could be that good if we had more time.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

My only problem with all this is that you are assuming that everyone is starting with the exact same "Natural ability". I think a lot of the pro's lean toward the "gifted athelete" status and their practice is magnified by their natural ability.

Don't you think that makes all these numbers a little "fuzzy"?

Chessbum....

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

I agree completely. The first thing that separates Woods and Singh and Montie and Garcia from many of the rest of us is talent, and no amount of practice will change that.

That said, I'm sure there are recreational golfers, including some in this forum, who have the talent to play at that level, if they choose to devote the time to it. There are plenty of people who have talents that go undeveloped.

I bet I practice more than most recreational golfers. 3 or 4 hours a week at the driving range is not huge, but I know plenty who go 3 or 4 times a *season*, if that. And I practice swinging, without a ball, every day--20 or 30 good full swings to keep the feeling grooved. But with all that practice I remain the worst golfer I know. Nevertheless, I make progress inch by inch. If I practiced as much as the pros I'd be....sore!

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

I disagree with that a little. Sure it's obvious Tiger has real talent aswell as having been playing from a young age and practiced a hell of a lot.

But, golf traditionally has been a sport for the rich. I don't know if it's the same in the US but over here in England it was a sport that only the well-off played. I don't think it's as bad nowdays but it's still that way. We don't play golf in school/college etc. so the only way we are exposed to golf as kids is if our parents have enough money to buy us some clubs and take us for a game. I have a great deal of natural talent for sports but I never had the rich parents to give me the opportunity to pursue any of them. I'm not saying it's a bad thing for rich folks to give their kids opportunities that some of us don't get, it's just that there is probably a huge amount of more talented ppl out there wasting away.

When my oldest brother was a kid he was a fantastic batter at cricket and was the only person ever to smash the pavilion window (was miles from the crease) at school. When he turned 16 my dad took him for a trial at Trent Bridge Cricket Club but my dad was proper working class and took him in an old banger ford cortina and my brother didn't even have any whites. All the other kids' dads turned up in mercs and bmw's and were shakin hands with all the club officials etc. Anyway, when it came to the actual trial my brother slogged the ball all-over the place and nobody could bowl him out. After a while even the pro bowlers had a go and even they couldn't bowl him out. However, they never contacted him to go play.

When I was at school I was a very good spin bowler and played for the school team. Two of my friends who were also very good cricket players were playing for a team outside of school and I went along with them one day. It turned out to be just like it was for my older bro. All the other kids were rich brats and mostly sucked. The funny thing was that the captain of the team was also a school friend of mine but he sucked so bad that when he played in the school team our coach used to tell us to run him out on purpose. His dad was loaded though.

I was also very good at tennis as was my younger bro. My parents once coffed up the money for him to go along with his cousin to a summer tennis club (was like a cheap thing they did in the summer for your scum to be able to play). At the end of the two weeks they had a tournament and my brother (who was only 13 at the time) only just lost in the final to a 16 year old who was the best player at the club.

Sorry for waffling on but my point is that alot of sportsman in these kind of sports may only be there through oportunity. Human beings are talented and probably alot of us could make it to a high level at anything if we started as a young child and had the same amount of practice.

Football (soccer) is about the only big sport in this country where everybody has a fair chance of making it if they have the talent. Although even that can be the same way. I was one of the best footy players up until the age of about 10 because I had more natural talent than the rest. However, by that time alot of kids were going to training schools that their parents gave them the money for and overtook me. I was/am still a very good player just through natural talent but it pains me when I see ppl with less talent making it. Not because I'm jealous but because I know that there are probably thousands of ppl out there who are much more talented that didn't get the chance. There was a guy at my school who's now a pro and I was better than him until a few years into his training schools.

This is the main reason England suck at most sports. About the only thing we rock at is fishing which happens to be working class dominated.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

Hello MJE77,

You wrote: >>>Sorry for waffling on but my point is that alot of sportsman in these kind of sports may only be there through oportunity. Human beings are talented and probably alot of us could make it to a high level at anything if we started as a young child and had the same amount of practice.<<<

I agree. Most of us had to work for a living. If I started playing golf at five years old I would be shooting par most of the time, not shooting around 100.

You mentioned that golf is a game for the rich. Tennis is a game for the rich also. That doesn't mean that you have to be rich to play golf or tennis, but having rich parents who can buy their children the best equipment and hire personal trainers and instructors gives them a major advantage. Some kids have great talent, but they still have to practice to reach the level of play that pros have. If pros didn't practice, they wouldn't be pros.

Now that I'm retired I have the time to practice and play as much as I want too. In the short five months that I have been playing golf I'm amazed with how much I have improved. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging. All I'm saying is if you have time to practice and play you will improve on your game, at least you should.

One of my brothers has a 17 handicap, last year he was a 20 handicap. When he started playing about eight years ago he never thought he would see the day he would break a 100. He's sixty years old and playing better now than ever. Why? Practice, practice and more practice.

Tiger Woods has a God given talent, but if he didn't practice as much as he did and still does he would be out there with us trying to break a 100.

I enjoyed your post. Lots of truth in it.

Take care,

Tom

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

To reach the highest level in golf, or just about anything else, takes talent AND opportunity AND commitment. Take away one of these and you might have a pretty good golfer, but not a great one.

I think talent is a kind of athletic ability that is transferable from one sport to another. And even today, while golf may not be exclusively a game for the rich, it's an expensive pastime. There are plenty who just can't afford to play.
The opportunity isn't there for everybody.

The level of commitment has to be very high, to put in the hours of practice needed, and to give up the things that "normal" people have time for.

So I agree that there are people with the talent to be great golfers who may never find their way to a golf course, or who may never do more than play recreationally. But no way do I believe that anyone who sets their mind to it can be great, or even good, in golf.... Just as I don't believe that the desire to be a musician and the willingness to put in the practice time can make someone a good musician. It can't. You have to have the talent, and not everyone does. It's like that in most things, not just sports, not just golf.

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

The post by MJE77 really bothers me. Why? Because it has overtones of Whining so bad it make me nauseous. Whining never made a winner out of anybody.

Let's look at some of the people who worked hard and made it bigtime: Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, John Daly, Jim Thorpe. They certainly didn't have everything given to them. Again, talent and hard work.

I tried to bite my tongue but I couldn't.

If you want it, you gotta put the time in. Don't make excuses....

Chessbum....

Re: The real difference between us and Tiger

You could darn near say any boxer, as far as worked hard (versus having had money to get in).

It's also the same argument for some basketball players (granted, talent has more to do with success than money).

I'm a natural athlete, and I'm sure given the time to practice, I could do well at any sport - regardless of availability of high-level coaching. Books are cheap, and so is the internet.