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**GreeBoman** · 09-26-2005, 08:47 AM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Originally posted by Mr_Change

But I would hit close to 1500 balls a week at the driving range.

Range balls schmange balls.
So you can batt away at balls into an open field, woop-dee-doo.

Originally posted by Mr_Change

One more question I hit 9/14 fairways in regulation. I hit 11 greens in regulation every round, What is my handicap?

What were your last three cards?
Average them v's par and thats it, simple really.

**LowPost42** · 09-26-2005, 12:50 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Originally posted by elefsis

Hitting 1500 balls a week at a driving range is not much use to you if all you are practising is a bad method.

Even to the untrained eye, it's not about the 'perfect' method, it's about the method that works perfectly for you. No two players swing exactly the same. Some are close, granted, but nobody is identical to the another. 1500 balls a week would certainly groove a repeatable swing, regardless of its technical perfection.

Originally posted by elefsis

I cannot believe that you consistently manage to mess up seven holes with your obvious striking ability. The two do not go together.

I can. Ask how often Mr. Change gets up and down. I'll bet the number is close to 0 percent. Ask him how often he gets on after missing a GIR. I'll bet that number isn't better than 85 or 90 percent.

I'm a high capper, but this is largely due to inconsistent ball striking, coupled with a serious problem: I can't get up and down. If I miss a GIR, then don't get on, I'm still more than likely 3 strokes away from holing out. So on a par 4, I'm looking at double (or worse, if I miss the green again).

SO to think that if my short game gets no better but my consistency improves, then it's quite reasonable to think that I could make pars and bogeys from hitting greens, but if I miss, I'm just as likely to make double or triple as I am to get up and two putt for bogey.

Ergo, it's quite reasonable (to me) to think that Mr. Change needs serious work on his short game to bring down his handicap.

**LowPost42** · 09-26-2005, 02:42 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Unless he blades his shot - sending it to the other side of the green (or worse), or chunks it, and has to hit again (just 6" closer), or maybe he can't putt.

While I think that if I was hitting 11 GIRs, I'd be probably 2 over at that point (as I don't 3 putt, really), theres still 7 holes for me to take doubles and triples on, from badly mis-played short shots. In fact, if I get in a bunker, chances are I'll take two strokes just to get out. This would get me to 14 over - even if I parred every hole I hit in reg.

I'm not defending Mr. Change, per se. I'm just saying it's quite possible to play into the teens, even though you hit more than 50% of greens, that's all.

**MJE77** · 09-26-2005, 03:32 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

I'm only a beginner and this is on a par3 course but 1 week I hit 12 GIR and only got 10 pars and the next time I only hit 3 GIR and got 11 pars. So if you are a bad putter and take 3 putts regularly and a bad chipper when you miss the green I'd say it's easy to be a good Iron player and still not be a low handicapper. After all, I think it's the shortgame that you need to be good at to be a low handicapper.

**javichanche** · 09-26-2005, 05:28 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

"You can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen" Lee Trevino, Open Champion 1971, 1972.

**ogallalabob** · 09-26-2005, 06:43 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Regarding your question I am not sure there is a correct answer so much of it depends upon personal preference, the type of course you play (does it set up for one shot or the other), distance you hit the ball etc.

I think you will find that you get more distance from a draw, and that a fade is easier to control your distance with after it hits. But there have been very successful golfers who have had their primary shots one or the other and a lot of golfers like to Draw the ball with their long clubs and fade their short Irons (Read in golf digest that Darrin Clarke has his 6 irons on up 2 Degrees upright to help with a draw and his short Irons 2 degrees flat to help with fading the ball)

I sort of can use the distance off the tee so primarily draw the ball with my driver, and then usually either attempt to draw or fade depending on pin location (perfer aiming at the middle of the grean and let the ball work towards the hole) or Wind (In a cross wind I have found that if you work the ball into the wind the wind will keep the ball straight) But if every thing is equal I would perfer the fade with my Irons.

Bob

As for your stats most of the pro's are around 11-12 (60-66%) in Greens in Regulation (Though the top is at 70%) so Tee to green you could easily be around par, not sure why you would be worried about changing anything.

**ogallalabob** · 09-26-2005, 09:15 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

I doubt I could hit it 230 yards these days, but the length is not that important, being in play is.

Yeah but it can make the game a whole lot easier and it is a huge advantage. Being 50 yds behind your fellow competitors really reduces your margin for error.

Plus with all of the big hitters on tour and the increase in distance of all the courses your not seeing a lot of Guys like Fred Funk making a living on tour. Even he hits it 280 or so but it is nice to see when he wins one.

**Mr_Change** · 09-26-2005, 09:35 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

I am able to play fades and draws on demands. I was asking if what people rather hit a draw off the tee or a fade. I can hit either but when I'm on the tee I don't know which one I perfer. On longer holes I will hit draws, but on the shorter par 3 I been hitting a fade.

The reason why my handicap was so high was a putting average of 44 putts a round. I also have at least 3 holes where I would over hit the green with my chiping needing 2 chips to get on.

I have gone back to my coach 6 weeks ago and had a lesson on my putting. I have droped down to around 38 putts already and been going between 8 and 12 over par. Last week I had a lesson with him on chipping. because I only chip 1 in 10 close enough to sink the next putt.

Apparently I was doing two majors no nos with both my chipping and putting. I would speed the club up and slow it down to change the distance instead of ajusting the size of the swing and the next things was I would flip my wrists and stab at the ball.

**Mr_Change** · 09-26-2005, 09:38 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Ricky you will get your distance as you fill out I am sure of it. 50 yards is a long way it is the difference of having to hit a full 9 iron to having to hit a 4 iron in. The guy with the 9 iron in can get it much closer more times than not.

**Mr_Change** · 09-26-2005, 09:42 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Infact it is even worst than that, Because if they are longer with the driver they also will be longer with irons which means they can play the more forgiving clubs from a longer distance out. like a pw you probly only get 110 yards while they can get 140 yards.

**ogallalabob** · 09-26-2005, 09:58 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

[QUOTE=Mr_Change]I am able to play fades and draws on demands. I was asking if what people rather hit a draw off the tee or a fade. I can hit either but when I'm on the tee I don't know which one I perfer. On longer holes I will hit draws, but on the shorter par 3 I been hitting a fade.

In that case I perfer to play a fade, but usaully need the distance on most of the par 5's and long par 4's so end up playing a draw more often.'

Bob

**jimw** · 09-27-2005, 12:53 AM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Hi all,
My first time on the site and its all it seems. Did'nt realize how many people in this big world knew so much about golf.
Any way re fade and draws. It seems to me that being able to work the ball both ways has to be a distinct advantage. I was once told my Billy Dunk an old pro in Sydney Australia, fade your irons ( to the green so they sit soft) and draw your woods or tee shots for extra distance. Seemed like good advice at the time and I have stayed with this ever since. It works for me, but we are all different.
jimw

**pinyo8** · 09-27-2005, 08:31 AM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Just have both! accuracy and distance.

Actually, what I want to say regarding distance is that it is obviously an advantage if you are not wild with it. All the top players in the world can hit the ball a mile and although they are not on top of the percentage of fairway hits, they are close enough and their shots are "in play".　Being in the rough (not deep deep stuff) 140yards out or being 190yards out in the fiarway...which one would you all choose?

Ofcourse this is not as easy to do as it sounds.......

**GreeBoman** · 09-27-2005, 11:02 AM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Originally posted by rickyharris04

It will give me like 25 more comps to play in and 25 more chances to get cut.Rick

You dont have to get cut in competition, you can by cut by observation, if you are -2 after 14 then you should not be off 10 or anything near it.
Your handicap committee obviously doesnt know their job.

**ogallalabob** · 09-27-2005, 01:55 PM

Re: Fades Or Draws

Originally posted by elefsis

All we see on TV is the leaderboard, the majority of the field are not even near par a lot of the time.

I damn well know that if I could hit the distances they do then I too would be back to scratch, as it is at my age I have to expect the loss of power, but I do gain the fifty years of experience. Having seen many of the USA courses on TV they really do not know what real rough is, they go in the trees, can find it easily enough as it is usually on pine needles and there is always a shot back to the fairway. We have many courses in England that if one goes in the trees it is a lost ball, and we all know the penalty for that.

elefsis

I think that the PGA perfers a nice wide open course for most of it's events, I think that the crowds come to see players hit their drivers and launch the ball a mile in the air and that is what makes them money. Really only the US open (in the US) has a significant amount of rough and every year a third of the field complains about the course set up.

I live in the States and would tell you that at the golf course I play at was sold and the new owner wanted to let the rough go to 2 feet high wild grass and about half the club just went balistic. They just could not play at a club which actually had rough on it, needless to say he caved in and started mowing the rough.

As far as Daly winning, he has had a lot of problems with his personal life, that coupled with the fact that with the new drivers, launch monitors, low compression golf balls etc. everyone is hitting it a mile and his advantage has shrunk. But, he is still making a good living, which I am not sure he would be able to if he only hit the ball 280 as opposed to 360 yards.

Just curious I have never heard the phrase getting cut what do you mean by that?

Bob

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