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**LowPost42** · 05-09-2006, 11:25 AM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

I doubt preferred lies include the rough. But lets say it does.

In that case, (and if I'm not mistaken, in every case) a local rule supercedes the Rules of Golf. In other words, since you're allowed to move your ball 1 clublength away, why not do it?

**aaa** · 05-09-2006, 01:23 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

Originally posted by kalulu

Here's another scenario:
My ball lands next to a bunker, and in order for me to play the shot i must stand in the bunker. However, local rules allow prefered lie of a club length. If i use the local rule, i could drop my ball away from the bunker, so that i would not be standing in the bunker - thereby improving my stance. Is this allowed?
Thanks!
Kalulu

Are you sure that the grass around the bunker is cut to fairway length. If not, preferred lies do not apply.

**kalulu** · 05-09-2006, 02:11 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker 2!

I'm on the lip of a greenside bunker on the fairway! the only way to play the shot weather a right handed or left handed player! would be to stand in the bunker!! now there is a local rule of a prefered lie within one clublength on the fairway but not nearer the hole! by taking a prefered lie of one clublength I could improve my stance,whereas i would not be standing in the bunker and therefore make the shot a lot easier!! is this not a breach of the rule of improving your stance?

**LowPost42** · 05-09-2006, 02:57 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

Well, since you brought it up, preferred lies is a breach of the Rules of Golf. Two strokes for moving your ball.

At any rate, the R&A seems to treat preferred lies like casual water or mud. You're not considered to be improving your stance to take relief from these issues, so how could it be construed that your stance is improved by taking advantage of a local rule permitting placing your ball?

My answer is no, there are no rules breached.

**aaa** · 05-09-2006, 09:30 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker 2!

Originally posted by kalulu

I'm on the lip of a greenside bunker on the fairway! the only way to play the shot weather a right handed or left handed player! would be to stand in the bunker!! now there is a local rule of a prefered lie within one clublength on the fairway but not nearer the hole! by taking a prefered lie of one clublength I could improve my stance,whereas i would not be standing in the bunker and therefore make the shot a lot easier!! is this not a breach of the rule of improving your stance?

You haven't answered the most important question. Is the grass where the ball lies cut to fairway length?

**kalulu** · 05-10-2006, 06:42 AM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

To aaa:

To answer you about the rough around fairway - all the grass around our bunkers are cut to fairway length - so is not considered rough.

To Answer Rickyharris:

The grass is fairway length around the bunker, as mentioned above.
I am thinking - thats why i'm asking the questions!

**aaa** · 05-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

Thanks. In that case you are entitled to the 1 clublength given by the (Local) Rule. So take it. There is no moral dilemma.

**TeachingPro** · 05-10-2006, 09:24 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

It's actually very simple.

If you're entitled to preferred lies, you can take it. You can even take it off a piece of fairway and put it onto the green, provided that you don't go closer to the hole.

So, to answer you question directly: yep - you can move it within the club length to give yourself a stance outside the bunker. COOL!

**agent99** · 05-11-2006, 11:55 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

I don't think there is any definition of Preferred Lies. It has to be defined by the local rules. At our club they post - Preferred lies in your own fairway. At other times they post "Winter Rules" (Which we know means that we can move the ball anywhere!).

Some clubs say Lift Clean & Place. This is what one web site (http://www.pgaprofessional.com/glossary/l.html)says about this:
lift, clean and place (sometimes also "preferred lies, winter rules") a mode of play, usually because of muddy or poor course conditions, where through the green the ball may be picked up, cleaned off and replaced (within a pre-specified distance from the ball's original location) in the position of the player's choice, if desired
Example: Conditions have to be pretty bad for the PGA Tour to go to lift, clean and place.

Note that they say "Through the green" - This means not just on the fairway, but anywhere in rough too.

Here is another link that discusses the subject:

http://golf.about.com/cs/rulesofgolf/a/winterrules.htm

**aaa** · 05-12-2006, 08:30 AM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

This is what the R&A and USGA have to say

4. Temporary Conditions — Mud, Extreme Wetness, Poor Conditions and Protection of Course

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/bo...s/bl-block.gif a. Lifting an Embedded Ball, Cleaning
Temporary conditions that might interfere with proper playing of the game, including mud and extreme wetness, warranting relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green or permitting lifting, cleaning and replacing a ball anywhere through the green or on a closely mown area through the green. http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/bo...s/bl-block.gif b. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”
Adverse conditions, including the poor condition of the course or the existence of mud, are sometimes so general, particularly during winter months, that the Committee may decide to grant relief by temporary Local Rule either to protect the courseor to promote fair and pleasant play. The Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as the conditions warrant.

The recommended Local Rule is

“If a player’s ball lies on a closely mown area through the green [or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole] the player may mark, lift and clean his ball without penalty. Before lifting, he must mark the position of the ball. The player must then place the ball on a spot within [specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.] of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard or on a putting green.

**pappu56** · 10-25-2006, 01:30 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

Originally posted by kalulu

Here's another scenario:
My ball lands next to a bunker, and in order for me to play the shot i must stand in the bunker. However, local rules allow prefered lie of a club length. If i use the local rule, i could drop my ball away from the bunker, so that i would not be standing in the bunker - thereby improving my stance. Is this allowed?
Thanks!
Kalulu

Prefered lies are only allowed in closely mowen areas. If local rule is posted at ur club that stats through the greeen than u can prefer the ball.

**aaa** · 10-25-2006, 02:31 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker!

Originally posted by pappu56

Prefered lies are only allowed in closely mowen areas. If local rule is posted at ur club that stats through the greeen than u can prefer the ball.

That was made pretty clear in earlier posts.

**pappu56** · 10-25-2006, 03:21 PM

Re: Prefered Lie and bunker 2!

Originally posted by kalulu

I'm on the lip of a greenside bunker on the fairway! the only way to play the shot weather a right handed or left handed player! would be to stand in the bunker!! now there is a local rule of a prefered lie within one clublength on the fairway but not nearer the hole! by taking a prefered lie of one clublength I could improve my stance,whereas i would not be standing in the bunker and therefore make the shot a lot easier!! is this not a breach of the rule of improving your stance?

Hi standing in BUNKER has no effect on ur ball its where the ball lies\

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