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  • How can this be happening? I need advice.

    • 58 years old and playing seriously for several years, meaning I play everyday (except in the winter months)
    • Usually striking the ball pretty well.
    • About a 19 Hdcp

    Now for the problem:

    Last year, I developed an intermitent push slice, Really ugly when it appeared.

    Toward the end of the year, I had it pretty much under control.

    Now, it is beginning to become a problem again. Today, for instance, after a round that I had really been striking the ball well and directly following two consecutive BIRDIES, I push slice to the right off the tee with two straight shots with a 7 iron??

    It is ALWAYS with the irons and NEVER, EVER with a driver, 4 wood, or hybrid club.

    Last year I went to 3 different PGA instructors and none could give me a definitive answer as to how I am doing this.

    How can it appear out of the clear blue sky?

    Now I am gun shy, and am afraid it will happen everytime I step to the tee.

    Do I need some psychiatric help or can someone make any rational sense out of it?

    I am all ears....

    Thanks,
    Chessbum....

  • #2
    Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

    Chessbum,

    You may have read my post regarding the total loss of my swing. Like you I was experiencing pushslice etc, and really down at zero. Today, ispent three hours on the range and eventually got it going again. I am positive in saying that if we experience these problems, it automatically follows that our confidence level is brought down fairly fast. This is a major contributor to deterioration of our game and must be regained before we see an improvement. What I am trying to say is that if we dont have self belief we have no chance. Forget about the pushslice problem and concentrate on what you can do rather than what your problems are.Hope this makes some sense.
    Regards,
    Robert

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

      Dear Robert,

      Thanks for the reply. I do recall reading about some of the problems you were having.

      I agree that some of it is mental and that the mind games that goes on in your head can be tortureous, but being a very analytical soul, it really causes a high degree of frustration because I can't come up with a concrete mechanical swing flaw that causes this. And how can it happen SO quickly?

      I have a list of things that I check when it happens but I sure can't pin it on one thing.

      In any event, I will continue to work on it and Thanks so much Robert for the nice reply.

      Chessbum...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

        chessbum,
        please understand that I am not trying to be rude and just trying to help. a push slice should be diagnosed very quickly/easily and since you went to three pros, my assumption would be that you were not ready to make the changes they suggested. Go to another pro, ask them to video you and if they still do not come up with an answer you believe, fly on down to orlando florida and I will show you what is going on. most people who swing the club have the athletic ability to shoot in the 80's VERY easily. when changes are suggested you have to stick with it for sometimes weeks/months. So you have to figure out what you want out of golf and what you are willing to do for it

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

          Dear Shooting,

          Thanks for the reply. To be quite honest with you, the suggestions the Pros mentioned gave me the feeling they were just guessing or "throwing something out there". From my recollection, here is a summary of what they told me:

          Pro #1 (Local Driving Range) :

          "Your swing looks great, in fact there is no need to come back because I am not going to change much at all." His only suggestion was for me to keep my head up a little more. At the time I was there, I was not push slicing so I could not demonstrate the problem (It comes and goes with no warning).

          Pro #2 (Golf Galaxy in store):

          Suggestions were very vague. To tell you the truth, I can't really remember what he said because he mainly talked about his intermittent slice problem. I was not happy with this at all.

          Pro #3 (This guy had credintials. He was voted best golf coach of southern Ohio several years ago and was not cheap)

          When I went here, I was on the driving range and push slicing like a banchee. I couldn't hit a straight one to save my life. Instead of giving me a reason as to why I was doing it, he kept telling me to rotate the wrists through the ball. I suspect he thought I was blocking my shots but he never said that.

          If that were the case, asking someone to conciously rotate the wrists is a tough request. Every time I would try it, it just felt even worse. Again I left with no real reason and a feeling that my situation was hopeless.

          Believe me, if it were possible, I would love to fly down to Orlando and get someone who could whip this old swing into shape. Realistically speaking, it's just not possible right now due to business and family committments.

          In any event, I love to hear your take on all of the above...

          Chessbum...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

            Are you maybe trying to kill it?

            I tend to get a push slice when I'm trying to hammer the ball. I end up choking the ball open, and for some reason, when I try to kill it, I play it back in my stance.

            The other problem that I've had with a push slice is a two part problem:

            A hip slide.

            A shoulder tilt.


            Again, in an effort to crush it, my baseball instincts come in. I'd slide my hips towards target - now my swing path necessarily has to be coming from the inside once I get to the ball; and I'd tilt my shoulders to try to get the club to the ball, and I have to hold the clubface open to get the head to the ball (to not miss the ball completely).

            The third thought is that it may be a hip slide coupled with crowding the ball. The result when you're too close is like the above example, you have to tilt your shoulders to get the club back inside, and you to flip your hands over to close the face fast. The natural release doesn't happen at that point, leaving the clubface open.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

              Originally posted by LowPost42
              Are you maybe trying to kill it?

              I tend to get a push slice when I'm trying to hammer the ball. I end up choking the ball open, and for some reason, when I try to kill it, I play it back in my stance.

              The other problem that I've had with a push slice is a two part problem:

              A hip slide.

              A shoulder tilt.


              Again, in an effort to crush it, my baseball instincts come in. I'd slide my hips towards target - now my swing path necessarily has to be coming from the inside once I get to the ball; and I'd tilt my shoulders to try to get the club to the ball, and I have to hold the clubface open to get the head to the ball (to not miss the ball completely).

              The third thought is that it may be a hip slide coupled with crowding the ball. The result when you're too close is like the above example, you have to tilt your shoulders to get the club back inside, and you to flip your hands over to close the face fast. The natural release doesn't happen at that point, leaving the clubface open.
              Dear Lowpost,

              Thanks so much for the reply. Everything you have mentioned I have considered and I think at times I have done all that you have mentioned. The hip slide I have had problems for years keeping it under control. For the most part I think I am doing okay in that area right now.

              As far as crowding the ball, that is how I fixed it last year. I started addressing the ball with the toe of the club and magically the push/slice dissappeared. I just happen to think that in the purest sense of the game, it is a bandaid fix, but I do think I have a tendency to sneak closer to the ball from time to time, without realizing it.

              The one real interesting point you brought up that I had never considered is the shoulder tilt. Because, as you describe it, the tilting of the shoulders and flipping of the hands describes EXACTLY the feeling that I have when I hit a "Lateral shot".

              Today, I went to the driving range with the intent of working on some of my known issues with this. Here's the funny thing, I hit a bucket of 85 balls and every shot was as pure as you would want. I just don't get how it can pop up so suddenly and without warning and when it does, I don't have a "Thing that fixes it" because I am not sure what that "Thing" is.

              Now that you know my history and considering that the crowding of the ball may be the first step toward having a "setback" I will keep it in mind. Do you have any suggestions on thoughts, drills, issues that I can work on to eviscerate this plague from my golf game????

              Thanks again to all of you for this help. It's so valuable to me....

              Chessbum.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                Just an "off the wall" idea to add to what has been printed above, but first this; Personally I think more turn, less sway, and better release could help with your ball flight issue. I printed a a bandaid fix on here somewhere that deals with your ball flight problem. I learned about it many, many years ago, and it is a good temporary fix while out on the course for pushes, and slices with irons. You might try a closed alignment, with your feet knees hips, and shoulders closed to your target line. Align your iron club face with your target line. The front side shoulder will also be pointing to your target. Swing straight back, not along your toe line, and from the top just make your normal down swing. If the ball goes straight, or straighter to your intended target, you have some swing issues causing your push/slice.
                Now on to my "off the wall" scenario. You said your push/slice is only with your irons, and is intermittent. Also, the pros you went to had a hard time discribing your problem's fix. Does this happen at different times through out your round, or does the push/slice usually show up during the later holes? Maybe, more often during the back nine holes?
                Hopefully a club fitter will read this, and confirm, or deny this possibility. I am not a club fitter, but have heard of this scenario before.
                Anyways it might be possible that your irons are getting too heavy for your swing later in your rounds. What happens is usually with out noticing it the player will sometimes get tired due to the heavier iron heads, which causes the arms and club head to not be able to catch up with the rest of the body. A decent grip, swing, and positions will look good to the instructor, but the ball flight will be suspect, and the instructor may not be able to put their finger on what is actually going on. This might be what happened with your instructor visits.
                It might be something as simple as having your your irons back balanced by adding a bit of weight to the end of the grips. By back weighting this will have a percieved feeling of every iron feeling lighter, and the same for all your irons. Maybe the swing weight is wrong on your clubs for you, or varies too much from one club to the other.
                Like I printed above, this is just an off the wall suggestion, and should be confirmed by a club fitter as a possibility. GJS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                  Originally posted by chessbum
                  Dear Lowpost,
                  As far as crowding the ball, that is how I fixed it last year. I started addressing the ball with the toe of the club and magically the push/slice dissappeared. I just happen to think that in the purest sense of the game, it is a bandaid fix, but I do think I have a tendency to sneak closer to the ball from time to time, without realizing it.

                  Today, I went to the driving range with the intent of working on some of my known issues with this. Here's the funny thing, I hit a bucket of 85 balls and every shot was as pure as you would want. I just don't get how it can pop up so suddenly and without warning and when it does, I don't have a "Thing that fixes it" because I am not sure what that "Thing" is.

                  Now that you know my history and considering that the crowding of the ball may be the first step toward having a "setback" I will keep it in mind. Do you have any suggestions on thoughts, drills, issues that I can work on to eviscerate this plague from my golf game????

                  Chessbum.....
                  well according to this it sounds like a set up problem that creeps in from time to time without you knowing it. most people dont make huge changes from one swing to the next, so if the ball is going off the planet then you probably set up wrong.

                  Also, sorry to hear you had three lessons that were so sub par, if they were the way you say then it sounds like it was their problem, my applogies

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                    The nervous ailment that causes the yips in golfers (and has very similar effects in artists/musicians) causes non-controllable reflexes in fine-motor movements. A golf swing is not what one would call a fine-motor movement but there are elements within the golf swing that are very refined movements for instance the grip and wrist movements. This is a repetitive strain disorder and there's not much you can do about it. Of course this may have nothing to do with your problem.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                      Originally posted by GolfJunkieSr
                      Now on to my "off the wall" scenario. You said your push/slice is only with your irons, and is intermittent. Also, the pros you went to had a hard time discribing your problem's fix. Does this happen at different times through out your round, or does the push/slice usually show up during the later holes? Maybe, more often during the back nine holes?
                      GJS
                      GolfJunkie and all,

                      Thanks again to all for your ideas and suggestions. This is a good question from GolfJunkie and my answer is that it is 100% spontaenous. I have PushSlice shots off the first tee with my 3 iron and other times I have hit the same crumby shot on the last hole after hitting solid shots all day long.

                      It's absolutely maddening. In a funny sense the shots all feel the same, but once it kicks in, you can usually bet that the next 3 or 4 will be "lateral shots". There's a subtle sensation that my hips are not rotating as well and maybe I block the shot when this happens. When I do make contact with the ball it sounds really terrible with a loud crack that almost sounds like glass breaking.

                      One thing I am going to do, is watch the distance from my body to the ball keeping it far enough away so that I can eliminate that as a problem. One thing that has always rung in my ears is a quote from Byron Nelson stating "you can never have to ball too close to your body". Why would he make such a statement if that is the cause of my problem??

                      Thanks again....

                      Chessbum.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                        I believe one of the biggest set up fundamentals is having close to a straight front arm and club shaft at address, not perfectly straight but pretty close to it, moe norman took this to an extreme but that is one of the reasons he was so consistent. realize that you can have close to a straight arm at address wtih the ball close too your body and also far away. if the ball is close to you, you would be standing more upright, far away and you are just more bent over.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How can this be happening? I need advice.

                          As a follow-up....

                          I played 18 holes today and played pretty well. I did not have one "lateral shot" and I believe it was because I was acutely aware of the distance from my body to the ball.

                          I'm happy.....

                          I hope it continues....

                          Thanks to all...

                          Chessbum....

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