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Provisional Ball Stroke Count
How does this work: I hit my tee shot into the woods for sure its lost so i hit a prov. ball it goes into the woods gone # 2. Here comes # 3 great shot on the fairway Now heres the question How many strokes is that? 3? or does the prov. ball start as # 1?
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
If you do not find the first and find the second, you are hitting 3 from the woods.
If you do not find either the first or second, you are hitting 5 from the fairway. -
Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
One into the trees.
Provisional into the trees.
If neither is found, add one penalty stroke per ball into the trees.
Lying 4, hitting 5.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
FYI - if you hit your provisional ball several times behind your original ball, and then find your original ball and can play it, you would be hitting 2 on the orignal ball ( ie the other strokes with the provisional don't count)Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
\Originally posted by msklar92
Is this accurate? I always thought that you had to look for your first ball right away, have 5 minutes to find it when you get to the spot. Determine wether it is lost if so then play from where your Provisional ball is. But, once the decision to hit your next shot from the Provisional spot is made it is a done deal.
Also have a question about how technically this situation should be scored? My buddy (with a soda on the line) is hitting 2 from the fairway (on a par 5 hits a 3 wood) he flies it over the back of the green. We decide that it might be "out of bounds" he hits a provisional same place (he is at least consistent) decides to go look for them before hitting a 2nd provisional. We look down the line he hit there is very deep 3 feet high rough in bounds, very thin rough out of bounds. It is clear that both balls are "in Bounds" but lost. He goes back and hits again,(5 wood) does the first provisional count if it was hit under an "out of bounds" and the ball was later determined lost?
BobComment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
If a ball may be LOST, you can hit a provisional. If that provisional may be LOST, you can hit another.Originally posted by ogallalabob
First ball lost. Second ball lost. Third ball in play. Here's how it breaks down.Originally posted by ogallalabob
1: Tee shot
2: Second Shot (potentially OB)
3: Reload (potentially OB)
4: At this point, the ball (2) is lost. Stroke and distance.
5: At this point, the ball (3) is lost. Stroke and distance.
6: Penalties assessed: 5 wood in play.
Here's how it would have gone without provisionals:
1: Tee shot
2: Second shot airmails the green. You go forward, determine that it's lost, return to where you hit it. Stroke and Distance.
3: Penalty Stroke
4: Launch next ball, airmailing the green. You go forward, determine that it too, is lost, and return to it's original spot. Stroke and Distance.
5: Penalty Stroke
6: This shot stays in play.
So the provisional just helps to speed things up. I've hit 3 provisionals off a tee, and had the first two go OB. Once I found the fairway, I was lying 7 hitting 8. Sweeeeeeeeeeet.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
I guess I understand that scoring but my 2 questions are:
1) you hit a provisional down the middle of the fairway, hit it again then find your original ball are you allowed then to play your original ball and forget about the provisional and the subsequent shot? I always thought once you played the next shot it is no longer a provisional ball and your 1st ball is no longer in play. (which I believe Msklar implied the opposite in his post)
2) you play a provisional ball in case your first is out of bounds, if the first is determined lost not out of bounds does the lostball provisional count or does he have to go back and hit?
I do remeber a situation in one of the Majors (couple years ago) Phil hit a ball deep into the woods, played a provisional (in case it was lost)and screwed it down the fairway,he did not really go looking for the ball, but his playing partner found the ball(what a guy), he had to go identify it, determined that the ball was unplayable and he had to go back and hit from the Tee, he could not use the lost ball provisional because it was hit as a lost ball provisional not an unplayable lie provisional. I just wondered if the distinction between OB and lost are diferent or not.
BobComment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
Its getting complicated now. I have been to 2 rules seminars and my understanding is that as long as the provisional is farther from the pin than the original, if you hit the provisional and then find the orginal you can play the original and discount the provisional strokes. I also thought you were under no obligation to look for your original ball if you wanted to hit your provisional. Now if a partner finds the original ball and it is unplayable I'm not sure if you are obligated to play it. If it is ob than you could simply use the provisional, or if it is unplayable than proceed under unplayable - 1) move 2 club lengths and drop 2) move back in line with the pin and ball as far as you want or 3) go back to the tee. Do I have this right??Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
The important thing is this: If you played the provisional closer to the hole than where you figure your original ball to be[/i], then you imply that your original ball is lost, and the provisional is the ball in play.Originally posted by ogallalabob
In other words, you could chunk your provisional 6 times, walk up and find your original ball in play, and it's like those 6 chunks never happened.
Rule 27-2: If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the palyer may play another ball provisionallyOriginally posted by ogallalabob
So whether you play the provisional because you figure the first ball is lost, or you play it because you figure the first ball is OB doesn't matter. Play the provisional. If you play it because you thought it was OB, and your ball ends up lost, then the same rule applies. Simple and easy.
No, no distinction between OB and lost. You cannot hit a provisional because you figure your ball may be unplayable. You have to identify your ball before you can deem it unplayable. Then your options for an UNPLAYABLE ball are:Originally posted by ogallalabob
1) Replay the shot from as close to the original ball placement as possible.
2) Draw a line from the hole through your ball. Drop your ball on this line, as far back as you like.
3) Drop your ball within an area 2 clublengths behind your ball.
If you're in a hazard, you must stay in the hazard under options 2 or 3.
Remember, you and you alone can decide (and declare) if your ball is unplayable.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
You are right about the provisional. However you can declare your ball unplayable without identifying it if you intend to take relief under option Rule 28a - stroke and distance (your No 1 above). Dec 28/1)Originally posted by LowPost42Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
Damn decision book.Originally posted by aaa
So I wonder why they forced Phil back to the tee box then? I though you merely needed to declare that you were playing a provisional - not why.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
My guess is that if you can deem a ball unplayable at any point but then it is no longer a provisional but your next shot. I found this which seems to support that interepretation: I also think there is a rule which forces golfers to identify their golf ball, you just can not refuse to (maybe I am wrong)Originally posted by LowPost42Damn decision book.
So I wonder why they forced Phil back to the tee box then? I though you merely needed to declare that you were playing a provisional - not why.
27-1
http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/bo...s/bl-block.gif c. When Provisional Ball to Be Abandoned
If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and the provisions of Rule 15 apply.
Note: If a player plays a provisional ball under Rule 27-2a, the strokes made after this Rule has been invoked with a provisional ball abandoned under Rule 27-2c and penalty strokesincurred solely by playing that ball are disregardedComment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
'They' didn't force Phil. He declared it unplayable. The area the ball was found in was so bad he couldn't realistically play a shot under options 28b or 28c. So he chose option 28a.Originally posted by LowPost42Damn decision book.
So I wonder why they forced Phil back to the tee box then? I though you merely needed to declare that you were playing a provisional - not why.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
My understanding is that if you play a 'provisional' ball it is only in play if you cannot find the original ball. Once the original ball is found it must be played. Once found, you can declare it unplayable then proceed under the unplayable ball rules to put another ball in play. The provisional, however, is no longer in play.
If the first ball is not found, the second ball 'provisional' is in play. If both balls are not found, then the third ball 'provisional' is in play.
Suggestion: If you hit your ball deep into the woods and suspect that it will be more trouble if it is found... don't specify the next ball as a 'provisional'. It then becomes the ball in play.Comment
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Re: Provisional Ball Stroke Count
If you play a provisional ball and subsequently find the first ball, you must play the first ball. This happened on Big Break IV to Don Donatello. He was pretty pissed about it.
Stroke and distance is just that. Penalty stroke and back to where you hit the original shot from.Comment
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