Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

hi all
it must start at the feet as you cant swing powerfully if standing on ice. try sitting on a computer chair with feet of ground and swinging.
bill

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

but you can lock the wrists and move the shoulders back and forth and hit the ball, not very powerfull but the ball will still move because it does provide some power. can also pick the club up with the rear hand, with no club face rotation, and just extend that hand at the ball. Golfing machine calls that hitting, it is how Jason Gore swings. The body rotation is only because the arm moves it. . I can hit solid 6 irons all day long about 170 with a very penetrating flight using no forearm rotation. the ONLY reason I dont swing this way is itis very hard for me to hit driver and chips. four main power sources, the combination is up to the individual

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

I tend to agree. I 'feel' my power comes from lead forearm rotation, not a delayed wrist release, although clearly the forearms are moving forwards propelled by arms which are propelled by my core. I feel nothing through my wrists at all, i deliberately want them passive. A lot of players are wristy though. Different strokes for different folks

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

not true..... I have seen a man on his knees drive the ball 300 and I have also seen him hit it 300 while standing on one of thoose exersize balls which is about 100 times harder to balance on than ice.

so as shooting says number 1,2,3,4, and 5 you can do all those whilst on ice or on your knees

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

hi lgskywalker
i was at a golf show once and they had a platform that you stood on that was on casters and was like your feet were on ice and lots of people tried to hit a ball and could not do it as it through there timing out so much, when you sit on a chair your body is is fixed to something and your feet are on the floor still, it's something you can build up some resistance against. you wil never see anyone hitting off a free moving chair as you need a fixed point, sit in your chair with feet of ground and try swinging your arms without a club, then see the diffrence with a club.
standing, kneeling, sitting is just the same you have a fixed point to get resistance against..when winter comes try swinging on ice and you will end up on your ass.
bill

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

ben isn't "lots of people", I didn't say it was easy or I could do it, but it is possible to hit the ball 300 yds off of ice.

I agree I would probly fall........... have you ever tried to stand on a exersize ball? it takes tremendous balnce to stand on it for more than 5 secs let a lone hit a ball 300 yds from it. It takes tremendous core strength to maintain that balance, and could easily be done on the ice for ben witter, not me.

look at this site http://www.scigolf.com/scigolf/myths/index.htm

here is a video of him http://www.tourtalent.com/talent.asp?ID=Ben_Witter

maybe a good raining aid would be to try to swing standing on ice and try not to fall. i have heard of standing with feet touching to help swing in better ballance, maybe ice would work too.

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

hi lgskywalker
thanks for the two links both very intresting, i think i saw ben on tv other day doing the hit with the huge driver and hitting with a club in both hands walking along a line of balls.
my point about ice and feet was that its important to avg golfers to have a firm base to get some resistance into his hips and legs when hitting through, i know there are some that have great ballance but most like me need to have a solid stance to get that swing steady and on plane. i do take note of what your saying.
have fun
bill

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

Well I did my tests (see previous post) last night at the driving range. And I am sure the results will recieve mixed reactions. This just needs to be stated; I was in agreement with aftford up until last night.

Results using a PW:
Test1: 110yds-115yds
Test2: 110yds-115yds
Test3: 110yds-115yds

Results using a 7 iron:
Test1: 155yds-160yds
Test2: 155yds-160yds
Test3: 155yds-160yds

One other thing that I noticed was that the divot of test1 was significantly deeper than the other two tests. Also test1 ball flight appeared to be higher. This would most likely mean that I was getting more spin on the test1 balls than the others.

These results left me dumbfounded. This would mean that the wrist rotation and cocking provides negligible power to the (my) golf swing.

Upon relfection I think I have the reason.

Think about the figure skater doing spins - starts spinning slowly with arms outstreached and then brings the arms in and the rate of rotation increases. However, the angular momentum is the same for the skater with the arms in and arms out (must be conserved in a closed system).

Now assuming that a person can only provide a fixed amount of torque (=power) to a golf swing (through shoulder rotation). Then independent of how the clubhead got to the point of maximum distance from the point of rotation there will be a fixed velocity for the clubhead (impact position). This relys on two laws of physics the conservation of momentum and conservation of energy ... both still true in Newtonian physics.

So for me, using shootin4par's list I am #1 (and possibly but I doubt it #4). This experiment has been a big eye opener for me, I would strongly suggest that others try it and see if we can get a variety of observations.

Sorry Aftford, but I now think that my power comes from the "core" of the body (core refers to abdominals and lower back strength) and hip rotation. Note that the core is the only thing that can rotate the shoulders independent of the hips (try rotating your shoulders without moving your rib cage - impossible), and the legs can provide some rotation to the hips.

The only thing that wrist cock is adding to my swing is more backspin and a higher ball flight.

I don't really need the added power but those who might/do may want to look at the following link (FYI - I have no affiliation to this company in any way shape or form).
http://www.sonicboomgolf.com/DemoWorkouts.php

C.

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

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crik ... crik ... crik ... crik

[crickets]

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

ting - ting






[Proverbial pin]

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

Aftford ... Aftford ... Aftford ... Aftford ... Aftford
are ... are ... are ... are ... are
you ... you ... you ... you ... you
out ... out ... out ... out ... out
there? ... there? ... there? ... there? ... there?

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

Did you take video or have someone watch you while doing this test? If not, it is really hard to "feel" the difference between 7 and 9 o'clock and completely eliminating wrist cock. Those are pretty interesting results nonetheless.

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

Alas, no. I did not have my video camera with me, or a buddy. But I will for next time (hopefully video so I can see the difference between the swings).

I would still like to see any results from other people, but I doubt anybody else will even bother.

Later,
2k3

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

I recommend that everyone should see this video http://www.sportsci.com/media/default.aspx?video=1005

hit next untill the golf video is there
look for the "biomechanics of golf" (it think it is called golf analysis...it is about 51 minutes long but downloading it i think is faster.

it is from the 70s or 80s but it is still good

he speaks of how the small muscles just can't move fast enough no matter how hard you try to move them. you have to use the big muscles and then just befoe impact the big muscles almost come to a comlete stop and all that energy is transfered to the small muscels and explode into the ball. the whole engine (core) trasnmition (arms and hands) theory.

Re: Golfing misconception regarding power

Does anyone know about the summation of force? If I understand the concept (which I may or may not) it has something to do with each piece of the body involved in the swing moving towards the same endpoint. So the slowest moving part would be the upper leg/hip and increasing the speed would be the ab/back, shoulders, arms then the hands. I would bet that the biggest power gain or loss would be in the timing of the movement. Just a thought.