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**Ian Hancock** · 09-28-2006, 10:32 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Firstly, sorry Brian I only read your original thread.

Yes Kensui I have heard of the ball under the heel tip and it does work, I was looking at this as a way to get the correct impact and followthrough feeling.

I like Maryanne thread and agree with the comment about the hammer, it's just easier said than done.

Ian.

**Ian Hancock** · 09-28-2006, 10:54 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by cmays

1. What is the most powerful swinging action that produces speed and force?

2. If you want to maintain a back wrist hinge on the way down w/o having the wrist in a tight position at the top of the backswing, how could this be performed and also allow for release?

3. Why in 15 minutes are less when a student comes to you that you can not reslove a problem with slicing or hooking?

I keep a soft back wrist hinge, and allow rotation to take care of the hand action. Forcing the hands only slows the swing down, applying pressure speeds the hands and clubface up.

Now we are getting deep.........................!!

1, Answer: A relaxed swing.
2, Answer: If I understood the question right then by retaining the wrist hinge back and through as late as possible is a perfect swing.
3, Answer: This is the easiest to answer, because it takes the human mind time to adjust to hitting a stationary object, if you took a broom handle without a head and swung at a ball it would no doubt be a poor shot, with practic however you would get better, walk along a 4 inch wide beem on the ground and you would have know problem, lift the beem 20 ft in the air with no safety net and you would struggle to perform this simple task. Why because their is a outcome now like golf, most people slice by trying to hard to perform................of course and some minor mechanical changes.

Ian.

**BrianW** · 09-28-2006, 11:18 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by cmays

1. What is the most powerful swinging action that produces speed and force?

2. If you want to maintain a back wrist hinge on the way down w/o having the wrist in a tight position at the top of the backswing, how could this be performed and also allow for release?

3. Why in 15 minutes are less when a student comes to you that you can not reslove a problem with slicing or hooking?

1) Centrifugal Force through the release of the wrist hinge.

2) The wrist does not need to be in a tight position at the top when hinged as long as the muscles are relaxed

3) Because the student is normally so confused with swing thoughts that they cannot visualise what is happening. A lot of instruction leads them to think too much about the use of the upper body and coiling effects which in turn makes them lead with the shoulders and create casting and an OTT path.

**Kenisu** · 09-29-2006, 12:23 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

About 1) Speed isn't the same thing as force so these are two questions in one. What do you prefer, to be hit by a ping pong ball or by a bowling ball at the same speed. Or why a bullet cannot cross trough a bag plenty of sand and an arrow can do it.
Speed with no force ( a bad grip that lets the clubhead rotate backwards at impact, per example ) doesn't mean distance.
My answer:
Speed: Forearms rotation while straightening back elbow motion at impact.
Force: Good grip in a good weight transfer.

About 2) Good question.

About 3) I'm sorry, don't have students.

Toni.

**LowPost42** · 09-29-2006, 12:59 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

I'll take the cheap-ass answer I often hear when pro's are questioned:

I'm just trying to hit the ball - it just happens. I don't think about what I'm doing.

Now that I've got that out of my system, I find for me, I have to conciously roll my hands over, otherwise I choke the club open and slice it. However, after a few swings, it becomes automatic. I need a range.

**lgskywalker37** · 09-29-2006, 01:03 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by Ian Hancock

walk along a 4 inch wide beem on the ground and you would have know problem, lift the beem 20 ft in the air with no safety net and you would struggle to perform this simple task. Why because their is a outcome now like golf, most people slice by trying to hard to perform................of course and some minor mechanical changes.

Ian.

i like that..... how our minds make a simple task so difficult. lol

**james.welsh** · 09-29-2006, 03:00 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by maryanne

I am getting the advise from Andrew Mowatt on this topic.

The 1st objective of the swing is to strike the ball....this can only be achieved with the use of the clubhead! The golf swing when performed smoothly is metronomic by nature meaning whether you swing a putter back 6 inches or a driver back to full load the time taken to get to impact takes the same time. Now with this in mind imagine picking up a small hammer and striking a nail, your primary target is the head of the nail and you imagine only swinging the hammer head to the nail.Take a fishing rod which has a much longer lever length and think of what you do with the tip of the rod.In both cases your only concern is to unload the tip at the target.
In golf right from the top of the swing we unload the club head directly at/up through the ball, thereare no positions on the way to the ball that we consciously perform.The reason being when you commence your primary movement from the back swing to the ball you have less than 1/4 second before you strike impact.This fundamental is confused when watching high speed photography.However the need to swing the club head like swinging a hammer or a tennis racquet etc is fundamental in human movement.
People often discuss the ulna/radius deviation as some movement we have to perfect for golf, yet throwing a ball, playing tennis it is something that occurs reactively to the forces of the swing, not something we do conciously.

I think Maryanne is quite right. I find my best golf happens when I feel "comfortable" over the ball and just make a nice smooth swing. All I ever think is over the shoulder and through. It's quite impossible to consciously control what happens during the down swing and through impact. The amount of spin imparted by the club-face is controlled by how strong or weak your grip is.

**BrianW** · 09-29-2006, 08:33 AM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by cmays

.

1. What is the most powerful swinging action that produces speed and force?

2. If you want to maintain a back wrist hinge on the way down w/o having the wrist in a tight position at the top of the backswing, how could this be performed and also allow for release?

3. Why in 15 minutes are less when a student comes to you that you can not reslove a problem with slicing or hooking?

I keep a soft back wrist hinge, and allow rotation to take care of the hand action. Forcing the hands only slows the swing down, applying pressure speeds the hands and clubface up.

Come on then Cmays, answer your own questions?

**Kenisu** · 09-29-2006, 01:55 PM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Originally posted by cmays

Kenisue:

Are you telling us that speed and force does not have an effect on how far the ball will travel?

So one does not need to make center contact with the club because as long as there is speed we do not need any force in what I am reading from you.

In golf:

Collision = Mass x Velocity, clubhead contacting the ball.

Force, Newton's Second Law, force = an increase in speed. The wind is pushing on the sails to increase the speed of the sailboat. I know that bowling ball would move me away fast upon impact.

Thus can one not use both to produce more speed the ball travels away from us?

Hi Cmays,

You misunderstand me, of course speed and force has a lot to do on how far a ball travels. I said speed by itself doesn't mean force.

The thing is golf is not just a clubhead hitting a ball. Golf is as far as I know, a man hitting a ball with a golf club.

At impact ( Newton's Third Law: Action-reaction ) all the forces (mass x velocity) have got to play their part, not only the clubhead mass and its Moment of Inertia (maximum on sweet spot).
AT THIS CRITICAL MOMENT, the ball produces the same force against the clubhead in the opposite direction making the clubhead decelerate or rotate backwards.
Here comes the importance of a good grip (don't let the club twist or move in your hands at impact) and the importance of all the other forces (body mass in motion) moving in the same direction (don't let the clubhead decrease velocity at impact).

Nothing to do with on how far the ball travel?

Friendly

P.S. Right hand drill position is plenty of force (in motion). Just putt the clubhead in contact with the leg of a table and try to move it to the target. You automaticaly go in this position.

Toni.

**BrianW** · 09-29-2006, 02:35 PM

Re: The Release Through Impact

We seem to have got away from the original question: "What is the best way to release the club through impact? " not "What happens when the club hits the ball"

I guess the type of forces and the physics are related to the techniques used to create them but can we try to keep the thread mainly focusing on these techniques please?

So, how do we get the most effective release: rotate the forearms through impact, push the right hand under the left, right hand drill (what ever that is), smooth swing, just let it happen, or what ?????

**Kenisu** · 09-29-2006, 02:52 PM

Re: The Release Through Impact

Hi Brian,

Your are right.

But this is a good mixed salad, isn't it. Interesting and maybe useful in the long run.

My answer to your question is:

Rotating forearms and getting my back elbow more straight through the hitting area ( hands do their job automaticaly by doing this ).

It works.

Toni.

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