I was at the range yesterday and noticed the guy next to me had a really pronounced reverse pivot. I know all about reverse pivots because I struggled with the same problem. Looking at him swing I just had the urge to tell him what I saw. I have never just spoken up to someone before but I just wondered if he had any idea. Finally after a while I did mention it to him. He didn't seem impressed. Probably was annoyed. Anybody else ever do something like this.
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Unsolicited Advice
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
I never offer unsolicited advice on the range. No matter how much a simple comment would help someone or how tempted I have been to say something (and boy have I had to bite my tongue on occasions!).
I recently had to watch someone beat the range mat to death in their attempt at a golf swing. With his reverse point, his swing would cause the head to thump into the mat about a foot behind the ball, bounce up and hit it low, or swing behind the ball catching it low on the face and again hit it low. The manipulation he had to go with his hands to try and achieve a decent contact also caused all manner of shanks and hooks.
All because he had the same issue you mentioned, a reverse pivot.
Unless someone at the range says aloud "What am I doing wrong?", I figure that they are trying to figure it out for themselves and would probably prefer it if people pretended that they aren't there and ignored them.
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
It's a tough call. You can usually tell if the guy is looking for answers if he is looking around. If he is all inside himself, mumbling and avoiding eye contact, leave him alone. He probably has some lesson or article he is working out. If he watches you swing and likes what he sees, you can easily help out.
I have had both sides of experiences. I have been completely blown off at the question, "I might be able to help if you don't mind?" and he actually walked away to another stall! Apparently I misread his looks at me. Then there was a guy that was in so much pain physically as he swung, every shot was like pulling teeth. After each shot he would moan and swear that it was "****!"..."Man, this sucks!". I normally move myself, but there was nowhere else to go. So I took the chance and asked if he wouldn't mind if I helped a little. He was so grateful afterwards that we ended up friends and played a few rounds at his club.
The trick to helping out is to be sure you let them know that you only see one thing that "might" help. If you go in there and try to rebuild, it is an instant turnoff. Letting them know that they are only going to receive a single tip is enough to let you in. Then if that pans out, you will get them to solicit more.
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
All good advice but like Greg mentioned, it was only one point I wanted to make. I thought that even if he didn't appreciate it he might be inspired later to take a close look. Even after someone told me about my reverse pivot it took a while for me to truly understand it.
So I think I will take the advice to read the signs before giving advice. But I really am not looking to do this when I am on the range. After all I have plenty to work on usually. It was just so obvious it was ridiculous.
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
its a pardaox... i have been on both sides....
when i sucked and saw someone good nailing it and hitting crisp i would want any advice he could give, but he was obvuisly practicing and i didn't want to interupt him. would/have you ever asked anyone for help?
but now that i am good, i am hitting good and i notice how terrible some others are hitting and i wonder if he is thinking the same thing i was thinking when i was bad, or not.
i wouldn't mind helping but i don't want to come off rude and ask if they want help if they didn't want it....... just like some want help, but they don't want to be rude (interupt your practice) and ask. someones gotta give.
when i sucked a way people asked me (after seeing me hit constant fade or slice) said "are you trying to hit it right like that?" and then gave me tips on how to fix it.....
their is a saying "the higher the handycap, the more advice they have"
so some people are cautious about recieving advice.
so if somone asked for help (i can then give them help my way), i would give it, but i can't ask if they need help becaue (i can't give them help thier way) i can't fix one part, i would have to build their whole swing..... i have only been swinging a club or a year and hittting good for a few days, so i couldn't help anyone w/o starting thier swing/grip from scratch (which most wouldn't like). guess that is why i am not a teacher, as good teachers can work with the swing you got.
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
Not that I'm as qualified to give advice as some of these other guys, but, I never give advice on the range unless asked. The only time I give unsolicited advice is when I'm playing a round with a friend I've got up here in the Frozen North who just started playing this year. Of course, I'm not really sure if it would be classed as unsolicited since the first round I played with him the first thing he said was "I'll take all the advice you can give." 20 rounds later and he's still taking it all and improving every round. Just a couple weeks ago he hit his first ever 200+ drive.
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
It’s a mixed bag. I have been really tempted, but I haven’t. I think Greg nailed it on the head, sometimes you can see people are just asking for help. I had one guy ask if he could watch me – I said sure – but I can’t think of much you would want to duplicate – this was well before lessons – any way he stayed for so long and had so many questions – I was working on my own stuff – and I didn’t want to be rude or too forward so – I worked with him.
Not so long ago a guy a few stalls from me was having a hard time. He was with a few of his friends. He said to me hey buddy – you look like you know what you are doing can you come over here and help me. I said sure, I walked over and watched him hit a few balls. His error was straightforward - I think his club head was too open at impact – I told him – the next few balls were long and straight – It took all of 20 seconds and I was happy to help.
If I see someone struggling with well entrenched problems and with OLDER clubs like the ones they have been using for the last twenty years I stay well clear. I think they would resent help from someone newer to the game who isn’t struggling. Their attitude goes along way to explaining why they haven’t overcome some basic flaws despite years of playing. Sometimes I think if they only knew how much help lessons would be and that there is a right way and a wrong way – and no matter how long you practice the wrong way – it will never be right.
James
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Re: Unsolicited Advice
on the course if you are going to give advice make sure it is after the 18th hole because if you do it before then everyone will think you are watching them and be nervous. Also, you need to make sure it is simple advice if you are not going to be there to see them through it.
as far as at the range, today I was off work and hit a few hundred balls at the range and took some breaks as well. Many people were struggling and in the end I ended up asking six if they wanted assistance, one politely said no. out of the other five I got three to hit some 3-5 yard draws . out of the two I did not get to hit draws, one was a complete first timer, whom I did not watch hit balls but gave him a two minute lesson. I did not explain anything but said do this, this and this. I heard his buddies later say repeatedly how well he was hitting it for a first timer but i had my back to him since he was a left hander so I did not see his shots. I walked by him again and asked him if he understood waht I was saying and needed any clarification and he said he was good, and he thanked me for my time . The other who did not hit a draw was hitting for his second time since he was fourteen, in the end he had a consistent push and was very happy with his consistent shot pattern. the third was hitting a hook and all I did was change his right hand position and instant smooth draw, another was not allowing his head to move in the backswing at all and was lunging at the ball. He was an upper 90's lower 100's shooter, got him to hit a draw on the second shot after a ten minute explanation and visual illustrations that I had him do. the last was a 12 handicap and early on I asked him if he believed I could teach him to hit a draw and he said he was skeptical because he has been playing for ten years, has been to instructors and was currently at a golf school where he pays thousands of dollars for tuition. He was work because he had more mental roadblocks out of them all. I worked with him for more than an hour, changed his grip, set up, preshot routine, and had him take two practice backswings before each shot. It took him about 20 balls before he hit his first draw, when he did his face lit up like a little kidThe guenuiine smile on his face was a great feeling for me. 3 of the last five balls he hit a baby draw for a total of four draws, and this was a guy who was skeptical in the beginning, after he hit the draws I told him "I won, your skepticism lost"
the common thing in all the people was that I helped them with their set up and ONE swing thought. I changed all their grips, spine angle, and knee flex. In the end I reitereted five times or more how to do it, cause if you tell them once or twice they will forget. I fixed their set up and backswing pivot and told them from there to hit the ball hard.
like greg said before in this thread, you have to read the person, I read one wrong but he was polite, the others where all ears. You also have to read their focus level on what you are saying and keep your explanation within their focus time limit. most people at the range, or life in general, are searching. If you know what you are talking about and know how to communicate it you should be able to approach about half at the range. some it is a 30 second tip, some it is 20 minutes or more. If you want to help and are 90% sure you can, go ahead and give it a try. you may meet some great friends that way and you may feel good about yourself in the process.Last edited by shootin4par; 10-14-2006, 05:23 AM.
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