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**BrianW** · 03-07-2007, 11:11 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by andym

Actually I was very serious about the planes they are largely established at address ie ASB vertical creates clubface plane when correct sequence is applied from address.My major bone with golfers who struggle with any consistency is they think at the wrong time about the wrong things. Working on any position could be valid in front of a mirror when introduced in association with the full intention of the swing. However when you are actually hitting the ball all the best players do very little thinking by comparison. Whats wrong with just thinking the shot once you know how?
Sorry my answers are so long, it's hard to condense a 15 min conversation into a few lines.

Andy,

Yes, I accepted your comments and agree that one should not consciously be considering swing planes in the swing, I don't encourage active thought during the swing other than maybe one simple one like tempo, I prefer to have an image of playing the shot rather than the mechanics of it.

Returning to my original post, I never advocated golfers thinking of planes and swing mechanics during their swing, I merely suggested I wanted to consider the teaching methods used in the video. I do think that swing planes are important to understand and practice should take them into account. In my most humble opinion swinging off plane and path are two major contributors to poor golf shots.

**andym** · 03-07-2007, 11:39 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by cmays

I agree with Andy on this one and I have said almost the same about planes, they are made to fly in.

Each of us has been given two natural planes for free that fall between an upright and Angle. Some may fall more on the upright portion of the angle and others a little flatter.

When someone is able to find your plane, not Hogans that worked for Hogan then this game becomes a walk in the park.

Andy has you to look up towards the clouds and I have you to turn back the hips until you feel the weight on the back heel and shift the front hip out about 1/8th of an inch and I can bring you back to center and you can turn back on the way back into the same position, but I find most do not need to.

When you address the ball and make the little turn the head is up, the posture falls into place and becomes real hard to drop the chin down.

For me the big chested person I found over 35 years ago that I could not look at the clouds from the left side (right handed golfer), but had to look backwards and when I did that the weight was on the right heel.

I also found when I had the weight on the right heel that no longer was there a need to try to work around the body, but I could go directly into the top of my back swing position.

People have been program/brainwashed that they must perform this and that mechanical action which is false. Much like that $1000.00 driver that will get you distance like Tiger, yea right.

Speed does not come from what plane you are in, it is lower body and educated hands and it does not come from levers, but hinges in which you want understand at this point, firing the trigger.

Welcome Aboard Andy.

Congrats on one of the secrets to golf....what works for you! Keep breaking the rules that don't work for you and dream of playing your golf in a natural and uncomplicated manner.... good on you !

**andym** · 03-07-2007, 11:45 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by BrianW

Andy,

Yes, I accepted your comments and agree that one should not consciously be considering swing planes in the swing, I don't encourage active thought during the swing other than maybe one simple one like tempo, I prefer to have an image of playing the shot rather than the mechanics of it.

Returning to my original post, I never advocated golfers thinking of planes and swing mechanics during their swing, I merely suggested I wanted to consider the teaching methods used in the video. I do think that swing planes are important to understand and practice should take them into account. In my most humble opinion swinging off plane and path are two major contributors to poor golf shots.

Yeh there is a real killer of mechanics...poor tempo. It has been argued that tempo when mechanics are drilled is the answer to all ails. Though I don't agree everybody will work well with this I found it interesting that the major tempo fault was that poor players swing too slowly! Again working with ball flight EUREKA!!! the ball never lies.

**BrianW** · 03-07-2007, 01:07 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by andym

Yeh there is a real killer of mechanics...poor tempo. It has been argued that tempo when mechanics are drilled is the answer to all ails. Though I don't agree everybody will work well with this I found it interesting that the major tempo fault was that poor players swing too slowly! Again working with ball flight EUREKA!!! the ball never lies.

Hi Andy,

I was very interested in your teaching techniques and remain open minded about them. Can you give me a little information on the concept of keeping the spine angle upright and the eyes looking up through the shot please? I try to maintain my spine angle right through the swing and into the finish, I also keep my eyes and head down until my right shoulder comes through and naturally lifts it.

Thank you. ( I love your comment on good and bad shots, you will see I have adopted it)

**dant** · 03-08-2007, 02:01 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

AndyM
I agree with you about following the ball instead of keeping your head down. But what happens with me at times is I find my self topping the ball. Could it be I am losing my spine angle and if that is the cast what can I do to maintain my spine angle an still follow the ball flight. It does put a lot less strain on my back.
Thanks
Dant

**BrianW** · 03-08-2007, 07:17 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Hi Cmays,

So you can keep the spine angle fairly upright and lower yourself to the ball with more knee flex? I guess this posture is less strain on the back?

**dant** · 03-08-2007, 08:24 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by cmays

Dant:

I will let Andy comment on this also please Andy because I like to hear our thoughts on the subject.

Hitting Thin:

You could have a perfect spine angle at address and maintain the perfect spine angle through impact and hit the ball thin.

What do I mean by that?

Grab the longest club in the bag, the driver and stand straight up. How many inches is the driver off the ground and what happens if you just swing back and forth and maintained that position if you where trying to hit the ball off the ground?

So we must also lower down in the stance.

I interviewed Byron Nelson many years back and he wanted to stand tall at address and then he lowered into the ball in the downswing. Right knee action which further sticks the butt out.

Jack Nicklaus stood tall but allowed the upper shoulders to relax, the same feeling as the swimmer that is on the platform or the quarterback who is about to receive the ball from center. Now there is the lifting up action at impact. Same as Shootin and Matt10 is learning under Mike Austin.

The key is not to allow the chest to move up and down. If you lift the chest up, you will hit thin and if you allow the chest to drop you will hit fat and you can see that by doing.

If you are going to stand tall like Nelson you lower into the shot from the knees in which you have several inches of play w/o hitting fat. I said knees because 1 knee has an effect on the other.

Mike Austin said the C-7 (cervical spine in the neck) was the center of the axis and to swing around it. If you maintained the C-7 in place you have prevented the chest from moving up and down, just as simple as that.

Cmays
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you lower yourself up & down doesn't your chest also. Like I said I must be missing something.

**edshaw** · 03-08-2007, 11:17 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

In reply to edshaw, Andy's first teacher was his father who played at the same club as Ben Hogan.Andrew's father was a self taught scratch golfer, who taught himself by watching and playing with Ben Hogan.I believe he may have won a game or two as well.

Speaking for Andy, are you, MaryAnne, or simply
making an observation? As someone who has spent
a lot of time in front of the classes, I am sensitive to
the potential effects many an offhand, often
well intentioned, remark may and have had on
students who assume the teacher is speaking
with some authority. That's all. Perhaps I was
overly sensitive. If so, I am quite sorry for that.

Andy's place in the annals may be as the first
to sucessfully discredit the most widely read and
respected golf instruction book in history, and
possibly the greatest player, in one swipe. That's
a position he's welcome to, as far as I am concerned.

Here's Hogan quoted on page 84, speaking of a
turning point in his development as a golfer:

"I never felt that my backswing was satisfactorily
grooved until I began to base my backswing on
this concept of the plane."

**maryanne** · 03-08-2007, 11:31 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

I was making an observation.From working with Andy a lot he often refers to Ben Hogan, and it was his father that gave me the Ben Hogan history on my research for the program.
I am only a social golfer and a lot of what you guys write about eludes me totally.What I can say is after two lessons with Andrew the first game I hit 40 when I usually hit 55 to 60.This is what interested me when I first considered the program.
On our third lesson Andrew ran into a client that had had 8 golf lessons 18 months previously.He was a 55 yo Asian that had played golf for around 18 years and was on a 24 handicap when he started his lessons.
When Andrew asked how his golf was going the gentleman said I am down to a 5 handicap, his friend said he was a burgular and should be on 3.
Andrew was very curious as to where he was getting coaching.
The gentleman replied Andrew I have the best coach in the world , I have two to three lessons weekly, when Andrew asked who, his reply was, Andrew all I have done is watch the video,s of the eight lessons you gave me 18 months ago.I refresh myself up to three times weekly and have had constant improvement.
After I heard this with my own experience I started the research for Bogeys to Birdies as Andrew makes learning fun and golf enjoyable for all handicaps.

**dant** · 03-09-2007, 12:42 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by cmays

Dant:

Lower your knees and your chest does not bend over, you maintain the spine angle. You are not bending up and down from the waist.

Brain:

That is one method.

People have been told they must do this and that by the person who wants to pocket money.

Look at these great men who all drove the cheap ball and some with clubs banged out and even from the hardware store. No $1000.00 drivers, not all the swings, setups and how they move are the same yet they could all hit the ball with distance and keep it in play. Look at spine angles and shop around. Before I post them you can look at David and his chi, I need to find
the guys.

1. http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...etofgolf1.html

Here we go we can look at spine angles and other things. How many times have one been told not to put the right hand under the club. J. Douglas Edgar did, I do, plus I like the old guy.

He used a rubber when he practice, he liked women and he had that right hand under the club to grab some booty on the way up after impact, strong grip inside swing. Before the plane it was feel and knowing how to work the club. I enjoy playing each of these swings.

See if I can get that ? mark in this one.

1. http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...etofgolf1.html

Snead would laugh at Hogan when he made a bad shot and made comments like, "Ben I hear that glass breaking." Hogan would get angry.

Cmays
I see what you are saying. Makes sense now, I will have to try it this weekend at the golf dome.
Thanks
Dant

**andym** · 03-22-2007, 08:21 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Hi there fellow golfers..... sorry again to take so long to reply!
My advice to any golfer is to understand what they do well and know what they can do better. Playing the game can be complex given the many different conditions we have to endure ie uphill, wind ,long grass etc. and therefore I believe the challenge is to learn to play the game, not be constantly playing golf swings! I caught up with Craig Parry a week or so ago when he visited our club, and I asked him what the most important thing he had learnt in his time playing golf. His reply was so simple...know what you cannot do and never attempt it on the golf course! Now Craig may not have a text book action ( if somebody finds that book can they please send it to me! ) but he knows wher the ball is not going and swings freely knowing his strategies will allow him to use his natural shots.
So what is the sequence of learning..Step 1 hit the ball step 2 know how the ball gets in the air step 3 which factors affect it's direction. Now you should have a swing that a moves the ball l to r or r to left....use it and then develop the 64% part of the game!

**andym** · 03-22-2007, 08:24 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

[quote=maryanne]I was making an observation.From working with Andy a lot he often refers to Ben Hogan, and it was his father that gave me the Ben Hogan history on my research for the program.
I am only a social golfer and a lot of what you guys write about eludes me totally.What I can say is after two lessons with Andrew the first game I hit 40 when I usually hit 55 to 60.This is what interested me when I first considered the program.
On our third lesson Andrew ran into a client that had had 8 golf lessons 18 months previously.He was a 55 yo Asian that had played golf for around 18 years and was on a 24 handicap when he started his lessons.
When Andrew asked how his golf was going the gentleman said I am down to a 5 handicap, his friend said he was a burgular and should be on 3.
Andrew was very curious as to where he was getting coaching.
The gentleman replied Andrew I have the best coach in the world , I have two to three lessons weekly, when Andrew asked who, his reply was, Andrew all I have done is watch the video,s of the eight lessons you gave me 18 months ago.I refresh myself up to three times weekly and have had constant improvement.
After I heard this with my own experience I started the research for Bogeys to Birdies as Andrew makes learning fun and golf enjoyable for all handicaps.[/quote
Sorry Mary Anne Dad has played with Ben some many years ago and was an affectiano of his ethos on the game but unfortunately he was not from his club...I do believe one of his club pros was Dai Rees not a bad alternative!

**andym** · 03-22-2007, 08:36 AM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Originally posted by BrianW

Andy,

Yes, I accepted your comments and agree that one should not consciously be considering swing planes in the swing, I don't encourage active thought during the swing other than maybe one simple one like tempo, I prefer to have an image of playing the shot rather than the mechanics of it.

Returning to my original post, I never advocated golfers thinking of planes and swing mechanics during their swing, I merely suggested I wanted to consider the teaching methods used in the video. I do think that swing planes are important to understand and practice should take them into account. In my most humble opinion swinging off plane and path are two major contributors to poor golf shots.

Hi there Brian in my weekly task of about 50 plus hours of teaching the game your questions and thought patterns are very common. With nearly all my btter players scr to pro level it amazing how little they know or want to know about the swing...they only are interested in their individual feelings to create a shape on the ball ie draw the ball think topspin. With most of my high handicap players it seems to be common to hear a lot of what I call dot to dot swing movements within the swing. So with that in mind perhaps a more practical approach based on individual feelings of total motion could help us all.....lets write a book golf your way based on outcomes ie ball flight. Einstein once asked what's more important knowledge or imagination....Imagination because it creates the future!

**maryanne** · 03-22-2007, 01:38 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Hi Andrew
Einstien quote was a new one to me, the book is already evolving in my mind but lets get our first TV season finished before I have to research the publishing market.lol
Dai Rees is a new name to me so I did a little research, in case any one was as stumped as I was.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dai Rees (March 31, 1913 – September 10, 1983) was one of the Britain's leading golfers either side of World War II.
Born in Fontygary, Wales, Rees is best remembered as the captain of the Great Britain team which defeated the United States to win the Ryder Cup at Lindrick Golf Club in Yorkshire, England in 1957. The score was a decisive 7.5-4.5. This was the only defeat which the U.S. suffered in the competition between 1933 and 1985, and the last achieved by Britain's golfers without the assistance of the rest of Europe. Following this triumph he won Britain's best known sports award, the BBC Sports Personality of the Year, for 1957. In 1958 he was made a CBE, a rare honour for a sportsman. Rees played in nine Ryder Cups in total, and was selected for the aborted 1939 Cup. He has a 7-9-1 win-loss-draw record, which was well above average for a British player in an era when the British team suffered many heavy defeats.
In individual events, Rees' wins included four British PGA Matchplay championships. He didn't win a major, but he was runner up in The Open Championship in 1953, 1954 and 1961. This is as well as any Welshman has yet finished in The Open. The European Tour was established in 1972 and Rees was a member for the first few seasons, but by then he was past his best. A keen Arsenal fan, he was involved in a car crash on his way back from watching his team play a match, and failed to recover from his injuries, dying some months later.
Ryder Cup appearances: 1937, 1947, 1949, 1951, 1953, 1955, 1957, 1959, 1961

Question Is the Ryder Cuo only played every second year?

**andym** · 04-04-2007, 02:15 PM

Re: Video Golf Lessons with Australian Teaching Professional

Was wondering if anybody has employed the use of a new product called the Leader Board. It is a core stability device that very simply develops the best stability and movement for the lower body in golf swings. It is currently is being used by many US tour players (Scott, Baddely, Appleby to name a few) and they are raving about it. I have been using the product now for over 6 months and am amazed at the results my students have enjoyed. Check it out .

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