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  • #1

    Hazard Stake

    Last week my ball ran a few inches into a red staked hazard but was playable. Unfortunately, the hazard stake was 3 feet in front of my ball and directly in my line of flight to the green. Was the stake moveable or unmoveable? I realized I couldn't drop my ball without incurring a penalty stroke so I decided to play to the side rather than moving the stake as I was unsure if I was allowed to temporarily drop the stake to the ground while I hit. Later, I was told that I could only have moved the stake if it interfered with my stroke or stance, which it didn't. I'm still unsure.

    Sdscouse
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Hazard Stake

    I think, because you were in the hazard, you wouldn't be allowed to move the stake. Outside the hazard would have been OK, though.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Hazard Stake

      Well that was my first reaction too and it's why I hit to the side rather than removing the stake. Now, I'm still not to sure of this.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Hazard Stake

        Firstly, yes, LP is right, because you were actually IN the water hazard you are not entitled to any relief from any obstruction moveable or not.

        You would have been entitled though to proceed under rule 26.1.

        Had your ball been just outside the hazard, if the stake did not interfere with your stance or swing, only intended path, then again no, no relief.

        The stake is an obstruction yes, whether it is moveable or immoveable depends on the ease of moving it. I generally treat stakes as immoveable obstructions as I believe the intent of putting them in is to be permanent indicators of the boundary of the hazard.

        Clearly, some stakes are easily removed and reinserted. This is situationally dependant. Just try to lift it straight up, if it comes out with little or no effort, away you go, please, just remember to replace it after you've played.

        Cheers

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Hazard Stake

          Thanks Scragger for the response. My gut told me I couldn't move the stake and I guess we should always err on the side of caution and not gay abandon.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Hazard Stake

            Originally posted by Scragger63
            I generally treat stakes as immoveable obstructions as I believe the intent of putting them in is to be permanent indicators of the boundary of the hazard.

            Other than stakes defining OB, I tend to disagree. At any tournament, It's usually spraypaint to denote hazards, thus eliminating the stake question. However, you're right that you cannot move them if your ball might hit them, but can if your club will (or if you have to stand on the stake).

            But what fear to have a stake a couple feet in front of your ball, and a 6 iron in your hand. Almost makes you wish you had a jock!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Hazard Stake

              Yes, I've seen those lines sprayed on to the ground on the telly...

              Do you get penalised for taking a divot and (re)moving part of the line, given it's part of the hazard...???



              Cheers

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Hazard Stake

                Originally posted by sdscouse
                Was the stake moveable or unmoveable?
                An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise it is an immovable obstruction.
                Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.

                Later, I was told that I could only have moved the stake if it interfered with my stroke or stance, which it didn't. I'm still unsure.

                Sdscouse

                You can move a movable obstruction at any time
                Rule 24-1 Movable Obstruction
                A player may take relief without penalty from a movable obstruction as follows:
                (a) If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Hazard Stake

                  Originally posted by aaa
                  An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise it is an immovable obstruction.
                  Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.




                  You can move a movable obstruction at any time
                  Rule 24-1 Movable Obstruction
                  A player may take relief without penalty from a movable obstruction as follows:
                  (a) If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed.
                  Except in a water hazard......

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Hazard Stake

                    Originally posted by Scragger63
                    Except in a water hazard......
                    Where does it say that in the Rules ? Here is the rule in full.

                    24-1 Movable Obstruction

                    A player may take relief without penalty from a movable obstruction as follows:
                    (a) If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed. If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction. Otherwise, Rule 18-2a applies. (b) If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole. The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.
                    When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than an attended flagstick or equipment of the players, must not be removed.
                    (Exerting influence on ball — see Rule 1-2.)
                    Note: If a ball to be dropped or placed under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.

                    Perhaps you are reading 24-2 Immovable obstruction

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Hazard Stake

                      Was lead to believe the notes apply to both moveable and immoveable

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Hazard Stake

                        Originally posted by Scragger63
                        Do you get penalised for taking a divot and (re)moving part of the line, given it's part of the hazard...???



                        Cheers
                        Yes on a practice swing (grounding the club), no on your stroke.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Hazard Stake

                          Originally posted by Scragger63
                          Was lead to believe the notes apply to both moveable and immoveable
                          I would suggest that is not a strong enough reason for posting what purported to be an authoritative reply on a Rules forum.
                          I would respectfully suggest that 'authoritative' responses are checked against the book before being posted.

                          sdscouse has now gone away with the wrong understanding of the rules and will probably tell his pals 'I am led to believe that that is the rule'
                          Last edited by aaa; 03-13-2007, 01:34 PM.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Hazard Stake

                            OK, having checked my book, moveable obstructions within a hazard may be moved.

                            That said, in his original query, the stake in question did not interefere with his stance or swing, only his intended path. As such, he was not entitled to relief under rule 24. His options were to play it as it lie or proceed to take relief under rule 26.

                            So, I recant on my original opening remark "because you were actually IN the water hazard you are not entitled to any relief from any obstruction moveable or not."

                            Thanks for pointing out my deficiencies, maybe I won't post any more for fear of saying the wrong thing...

                            Either that or best I get a lawyer to proof read all my posts in future...

                            Cheers
                            Last edited by Scragger63; 03-13-2007, 10:04 PM.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Hazard Stake

                              Well after reading all the wonderful posts that my original question started, I played golf today and sought out the club pro to restate my question. Just to make life more exasperating, he told me that the ball was in the hazard and so was the stake, and that nothing can be moved in the hazard even it is a mere twig.

                              Seems that he needs to read the rules again if aaa is correct, (and I believe he is).

                              Sdscouse

                              Comment

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