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  • #1

    making golf courses easier?!

    I have noticed a growing trend of commentary, opinions being bandied about regarding increasing interest in the game by making courses easier for the average weekend golfer.

    I am interested to hear what everyone on this forum thinks about it. I personally feel that a good golf course design would allow pro and beginners to play the course. I don't feel that courses should be tamed.
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  • #2
    Re: making golf courses easier?!

    For me Sid, the key word that should apply to ANY golf course is "Fair"....

    It should penalise to some extent each and every "poor" shot and should reward those who "gamble and win"....

    Don't think I want to play Medinah or Carnoustie with rough that is a foot and a half deep 3 inches into the first cut, BUT, that said, I also don't want to play a course where I can lose my tee shot 3 fairways across and still have a realistic approach for an outside possibility of birdie...!!!

    Well, that's my 2c worth anyways......

    Cheers...

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    • #3
      Re: making golf courses easier?!

      I have not heard of making courses easier, I have read about making the game harder for the tour players. This was by reducing the grooves on club faces to lessen spin and changing the ball so it would not travel so far, they were talking of making a standard for the ball where it would have to float in water.

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      • #4
        Re: making golf courses easier?!

        My course is doing it... cutting down trees, leveling out slopes, etc.

        It sucks. Cut down a few more trees, fill in a few more bunkers, and I may as well go play the cow pasture down the road.

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        • #5
          Re: making golf courses easier?!

          My course is doing the opposite, making a par 5 into a par 4 by moving the tee up a little and making a par 4 into a long par 3 by moving the tee a little.

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          • #6
            Re: making golf courses easier?!

            Originally posted by BrianW View Post
            My course is doing the opposite, making a par 5 into a par 4 by moving the tee up a little and making a par 4 into a long par 3 by moving the tee a little.
            I have seen some of the newer courses in our area (Lehigh Valley, PA) do the some of the same things. Only 1 course comes to mind that acutally change a hole (510 yard par 5 from the blues to a 440 yard par 4 from the blues). Most of the courses have been moving back the white tees back closer to the blues, while letting the black, senior and ladies tees alone.

            My "home course" is already freaking hard enough. I don't think its that long, but its not an easy course. Silver Creek CC in Hellertown, PA. Don Ross design. Tight fairways, long par 3s, bunkers at the right distances. Gives you some breaks with some pretty simple par 5s, destroys you with some really tricky greens.

            I think Brian's earlier post about the changing of the clubs and balls is the bigger story. If you make the clubs less effective in spinning the ball and make the balls not travel so far, you won't have to keep lengthing the courses. If 112 guys on tour have an average drive OVER 280 yards, and you don't want to touch the technology, what else can you do but push the tees back. Even if all of your par 4s are 450 yards, that leaves most of these tour pros 170 yards or less for their approach. What, 7iron and under for a bunch of these guys.

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            • #7
              Re: making golf courses easier?!

              My course is already easy and they're making it easier. They've taken out the only 2 fairway bunkers on the course, because they thought they were double hazards with the trees close to them as well.

              All of the difficulty besides trees are on the right side of the course. All the OB and water hazards are on the right side. The water hazards aren't in play for half the players out there, including myself. Easy enough to bomb it over them.
              They also took some trees out, but from what I heard they had to do to some USGA rule about having to have the fairway so wide if there trees in the fairway. They had trees around the front tees on a par 5 you had to get around to get to the fairway. Holes a ton easier now.

              The greens have always been easy to two putt. The breaks can be hard to read as the green is so flat but if your speed is on, you can aim right at the hole and never worry about more than a 3 footer for your 2 putt.

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              • #8
                Re: making golf courses easier?!

                I think this is a very difficult question to answer in any consistent manner.

                No course play the same for any 2 given golfers. That is the very essence of course rating. Different players at different levels have different skillsets, and the course has to be somewhat challenging for all.

                That is why course rating are based on 2 elements: CR and SLOPE.

                CR is an indication of the expected score by a scratch golfer under normal conditions, while slope is an indication of the relative difficulty of the course for a bogey golfer.

                It is not at all impossible to make a course easier for the bogey golfer, while making it harder for the scratch golfer. The simple way is to move the fairway bunkers, so that they are out of reach for the average bogey golfer while being in play for the longer hitting scratch golfers.

                Today, with new balls and huge 'high MOI' drivers, bogey golfers are hitting bunkers that were never intended for their skill level, while the scratch players are easily carrying bunkers and hazards.

                So it's very much depending on the actual changes AND the skill level of any given player, if a change to the course layout will mean an easier or a harder course.

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                • #9
                  Re: making golf courses easier?!

                  Originally posted by Mox View Post
                  Today, with new balls and huge 'high MOI' drivers, bogey golfers are hitting bunkers that were never intended for their skill level, while the scratch players are easily carrying bunkers and hazards.
                  You hit on a big point here. The average handicap in the United States has bascially not changed over the last 30 years. With all of this technology, why not? I think the fact that the average golfer is hitting these hazards is a big part. Another being more people are playing golf now, so more amateurs, so the higher handicaps get thrown in there as well.

                  Your other big point being how a course plays for 1 person vs another. My one friend HATES our city's muni course. Its long, actually, really long for a muni course. I love it. Its wide open with no water and very few fairway bunkers. I hit it 30-40 yards farther than him.

                  Also, most golfers don't play the right tees. My father, who has a form of MS, should probably play from the senior tees. He hits 200-220 yard drives. But he insists on playing the whites or blues, depending on the course. Where as when I play with him at certain courses, I will play the whites when I should play the blues. We split the difference, but the course plays easier for me and harder for him. I see this happen ALL THE TIME!

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                  • #10
                    Re: making golf courses easier?!

                    Personally I think it makes no difference for the recreational player if the course is easier, or not. The mind set will always still be to hit the ball as far as they can with out regards to the course set up. A 300 yard plus drive into the rough, or tree line will always generate more interest for the novice golfer than a 220 yard shot which lands in the short grass. The majority of the recreational players will not seek out professional instruction, and will still believe that a $500 unfitted, off the rack driver will cure their poor swing issues.

                    As for the pro player, i believe since they are nothing more than sports entertainers, that any course they play on should be set up on Saturday, and Sunday so that the last 6 holes are progressively harder than the first 12 holes they play. With a par 4, 18th hole playing at 4.75 for the tournament, this would generate more viewers for the TV networks. Numerous lead changes, with the tournament out come some what still in doubt till the 72nd hole just add to the golf fan's interest. JMHO........GJS

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                    • #11
                      Re: making golf courses easier?!

                      Originally posted by GolfJunkieSr View Post
                      Personally I think it makes no difference for the recreational player if the course is easier, or not. The mind set will always still be to hit the ball as far as they can with out regards to the course set up. A 300 yard plus drive into the rough, or tree line will always generate more interest for the novice golfer than a 220 yard shot which lands in the short grass. The majority of the recreational players will not seek out professional instruction, and will still believe that a $500 unfitted, off the rack driver will cure their poor swing issues.

                      As for the pro player, i believe since they are nothing more than sports entertainers, that any course they play on should be set up on Saturday, and Sunday so that the last 6 holes are progressively harder than the first 12 holes they play. With a par 4, 18th hole playing at 4.75 for the tournament, this would generate more viewers for the TV networks. Numerous lead changes, with the tournament out come some what still in doubt till the 72nd hole just add to the golf fan's interest. JMHO........GJS
                      I'll largely agree with that. Last year, with no course management nor strategy, I could shoot the same score on any course - regardless of slope or rating. I could hit it OB anywhere! Now, however, I'm learning that I do better in wider courses with less sand than I do on tighter courses with more hazards or forced carries... a little course management makes some courses tougher!

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                      • #12
                        Re: making golf courses easier?!

                        Originally posted by GolfJunkieSr View Post
                        Personally I think it makes no difference for the recreational player if the course is easier, or not. The mind set will always still be to hit the ball as far as they can with out regards to the course set up. A 300 yard plus drive into the rough, or tree line will always generate more interest for the novice golfer than a 220 yard shot which lands in the short grass. The majority of the recreational players will not seek out professional instruction, and will still believe that a $500 unfitted, off the rack driver will cure their poor swing issues.

                        As for the pro player, i believe since they are nothing more than sports entertainers, that any course they play on should be set up on Saturday, and Sunday so that the last 6 holes are progressively harder than the first 12 holes they play. With a par 4, 18th hole playing at 4.75 for the tournament, this would generate more viewers for the TV networks. Numerous lead changes, with the tournament out come some what still in doubt till the 72nd hole just add to the golf fan's interest. JMHO........GJS
                        EVERY tourney that gets Tiger in it is praying for him to be near the top of the leaderboard. That's pretty obvious. But, look at the British last year. Tiger had AMAZING course management and won. He hit drive twice. Both times into the ruff. But if I could hit a stinger 5 wood 280 yards, I might not hit driver either.

                        The last part of you statement, about the last 6 holes and lead changes, that is very true. You want action and excitement. I am glad they do it that way. Watching the US Open last year was awesome and the Masters this year. Personally, I like to watch the pros struggle

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