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What to do with cheaters?

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  • #1

    What to do with cheaters?

    You know the old golf joke?

    Golf is a game where you shout "fore", shoot 6 and write down 5.

    Anybody play with people like this. I have a friend who is terrible for this. I prefer not to play with him but he golfs a lot and that gives me an opportunity to play a few games as well.

    Trouble is his ego is too big for him to card a 9 or 10 if he did indeed take that number of strokes, instead he just seems to ask for a triple to be put down.

    At first I would be affected by the cheating and once confronted him but he got really mad so I just let it be.

    Recently one of our regular playing partners (who I thought was oblivious to all the lie adjustments, foot-wedges and general shot amnesia) said to me, "Hmm he's 5 off the tee, wonder what number he'll cook up for his score?". Turned out to be an 8 but we (the other friend and I) had a good laugh about it later.

    I just don't understand why it so hard to put down the number you actually got on each hole, hell I have scorecards with 12s on them and boy does it feel good to then par that same hole the next time. What my friend is actually doing is robbing himself of any type of improvement in scoring. In the past he would fudge together a 97 (which would be more like a 108) and I would shoot a steady 105, and he'd be all cocky that he'd beat everyone, now though he fudges a 96 (still a 105-108), but I'm shooting low 90s so now I am beating his fudged scores.

    What is funnier is that he is now taking lessons but won't put in any time at the range with what the pro worked with him on, again his ego is too big to practice. He is actually getting worse, and cheating more, but because I am playing well, he can't cheat enough to beat my scores. I wish he'd just be truthful with himself and card correct scores.

    One way I did find to keep his numbers a bit more real was to rather than say "what did you shoot for that hole?", would be "4 on and then a 3 putt for you?". Seems to work but for the big numbers or ones where I saw him move his ball from behind a tree and then shoot a birdie it doesn't work so well.

    Any one play with cheaters and what did you do to combat it?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: What to do with cheaters?

    The closest I've come is someone who didn't fully understand the rules of golf. Their scoring system was simply the number of times they hit the ball (read: no strokes for lost balls, hazard balls, etc). They'd play their ball down, but beyond that, nada. A simple education was all that was required.

    As for your guy, he's the player that drives me nuts post round. During the round, do whatever you like. But if you foot wedge half your shots, put your ball marker down in front of your ball, then replace your ball in front of your ball marker, and improve almost every lie you have, don't say you beat me when we're all done. Because I was playing golf. You were just playing a game with golf clubs and golf balls on a golf course.

    In fact, I play every now and then with a gent that uses the Rick Smith Swing Glove as his golf glove, never pitches back from behind a tree, and balls that went into a lat hazard always kick out 10 yards or more from the point of entry. It's cool, because he'll never enter a tourney and he doesn't claim to have beat me at the end of the day.

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    • #3
      Re: What to do with cheaters?

      I can see this thread become the rant thread. Get it off your chest everyone, it feels much better.

      Lowpost, you hit the nail on the head there, I wouldn't mind "my guy" if he fessed up afterwards and said, "well I shot a 97, but I did take a bunch of mulligans and didn't count all my putts".

      He once said, "so what's all this handicap tracking you do, i'll have to try that sounds like i'd be about a 20".

      Through gritted teeth I replied, "you'd be surprised, stroke and distance can really effect your score". He looked blankly at me and never mentioned it again.

      That would finish me off if I heard him bragging about his HCP knowing full well he'd be fudging the hell out of it. Christ, some random golfer we played with mentioned ESC to him. I tried to explain ESC to him that you never apply ESC during a round, but only after the round at home when entering your score, "for all intensive purposes I shot a 99 today in our game, but will get 2 strokes knocked off when I enter my score for handicap purposes". He didn't hear anything but, you only have to card a triple....typical.

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      • #4
        Re: What to do with cheaters?

        Snowman, If you weren't in Canada I'd swear you were talking about a guy named Pete here.

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        • #5
          Re: What to do with cheaters?

          I have played with more cheaters then non cheaters. They are cheating themselves. I go into each round with a realistic number I want to shoot. I dont care what the other guy says he got. UNLESS we are playing for money. I will call them out on that in a minute. It took a long time to get to where it dont bother me though. I can be hot headed sometimes.

          A guy from works famous line is " Were just playing for fun".

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          • #6
            Re: What to do with cheaters?

            Originally posted by snowman View Post
            I tried to explain ESC to him that you never apply ESC during a round, but only after the round at home when entering your score, "for all intents and purposes I shot a 99 today in our game, but will get 2 strokes knocked off when I enter my score for handicap purposes". He didn't hear anything but, you only have to card a triple....typical.
            I've played with some very good golfers who have no idea what ESC is all about.

            They'll say 'I shot a 9 on the par 5, but I can only take double, so mark me for a 7.' I always reply 'Are you using this round for your handicap?' When the inevitable negatory comes back, I'll say 'so 9 it is.'

            ESC only applies to your handicap. If you don't keep one, you don't get ESC.

            And like you say, ESC is a post round thing, not a during round thing.

            Finally, folks screw up ESC all the time. Your ESC limit is based on your Course Handicap, not your Handicap Index.

            IIRC, you take your handicap index (25.24 in my case) and the rating of the course (69.2 at my home course). You take the differential between the rating and par (72-69.2=2.8) and add it to your handicap index (25.24+2.8=28.04). Trunctuate (or round down) for your course handicap. (28.04=28). So my course handicap is 28, and I use THAT number in conjunction with ESC (so for Canada, quad is my ESC max).

            That alone will screw up the average golfer more than anything.

            Slightly off topic, to figure out if you played to your handicap, you add your course handicap back to the rating and round (proper rounding). So for me, playing to my handicap at home means shooting 97. I've done that 2 of the last 20 times out.

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            • #7
              Re: What to do with cheaters?

              Originally posted by LowPost42 View Post

              Finally, folks screw up ESC all the time. Your ESC limit is based on your Course Handicap, not your Handicap Index.

              IIRC, you take your handicap index (25.24 in my case) and the rating of the course (69.2 at my home course). You take the differential between the rating and par (72-69.2=2.8) and add it to your handicap index (25.24+2.8=28.04). Trunctuate (or round down) for your course handicap. (28.04=28). So my course handicap is 28, and I use THAT number in conjunction with ESC (so for Canada, quad is my ESC max).
              Not sure you are doing that correctly. The software I use says this:

              Originally posted by Ottawagolf.com handicapping section
              Handicap Factor vs Course Handicap

              Your Course Handicap is your Handicap Factor adjusted for the difficulty of the course and tees played, which is indicated by the Course Rating and Slope.
              A course with a Slope of 113 is considered to be of “standard”, or average, difficulty. On courses with a Slope rating below 113, players receive fewer strokes than their Handicap Factor but more strokes on courses with a Slope Rating higher than 113. Slope Ratings range from 55 to 155.

              Course Handicap = Handicap factor * Course Slope / 113

              Your COURSE handicap NOT your Hcp factor
              RCGA handicap
              0 or plus - 1 over par
              1 through 18 - 2 over par
              19 through 32 - 3 over par
              33+ - 4 over par


              Example: If your course handicap is 15, your maximum for any hole is a double bogey. If your gross score was 85 and you had one quadruple bogey, and a triple you would post an Adjusted Score of 82 for handicap purposes. Your quad-bogey is 2 above double, and the triple-bogey is one above double for a total ESC adjustment of 3 for the round.

              Scores that include reasonable conceded putts are acceptable and should be recorded, except the ESC shall apply when the score exceeds that allowed by the formula. A Handicap Factor determined from scores to which ESC has not been applied may not be termed an RCGA Handicap Factor. Under no circumstances shall the procedures of this section be used by a player to manipulate his Handicap Factor.
              Your ESC should be a triple unless your home course has a slope of over 130.

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              • #8
                Re: What to do with cheaters?

                Thanks snowman. This could be the difference between the USGA and the R&A (I snagged mine from the USGA).

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                • #9
                  Re: What to do with cheaters?

                  Originally posted by LowPost42 View Post
                  Thanks snowman. This could be the difference between the USGA and the R&A (I snagged mine from the USGA).
                  USGA uses the same slope calculation but then these ESC:

                  USGA handicap
                  9 HCP or less - Double Bogey
                  10 through 19 - 7
                  20 through 29 - 8
                  30 through 39 - 9
                  40 or more - 10

                  As you are in Canada you MUST use the RCGA system or your handicap will be wrong.

                  I use the handicapping feature on ottawagolf.com to keep track of mine.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What to do with cheaters?

                    Good stuff - I'll switch over. I had conversion charts bookmarked at one point... but then good ol' Winblows crashed and I lost it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What to do with cheaters?

                      Throw them in the bunker with the hose pipe on them earlie in the morning (cheaters that is)

                      Or

                      Start a cheaters league where they can cheat against each other, that would be interesting!

                      "Here it is, I have found my ball and it's sat up nicely"

                      "You cheater, it cant be your ball"

                      " Why not"

                      "Because I am standing on yours"

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                      • #12
                        Re: What to do with cheaters?

                        Originally posted by BrianW View Post


                        Start a cheaters league where they can cheat against each other, that would be interesting!

                        "Here it is, I have found my ball and it's sat up nicely"

                        "You cheater, it cant be your ball"

                        " Why not"

                        "Because I am standing on yours"
                        Brilliant!

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                        • #13
                          Re: What to do with cheaters?

                          Originally posted by snowman View Post
                          Brilliant!
                          That's from Goldfinger!

                          My favourite Bond movie...

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                          • #14
                            Re: What to do with cheaters?

                            " Why not"

                            "Because I am standing on yours"[/quote]

                            Reminds me of the time when me and 2 other guys from the office were playing. On a par 3 170 yard hole the one player yanks it left. Me and the other guy see the ball drop under and behind a tree. The fellow proceeds to say he saw it and doesn't need help. As he heads for a nice open spot left of the green a ball magicaly rolls out of his cart. With a nice look at the green. He chimes I got it it is right here

                            At that point we already had his actual ball found, the comment is then made we found this Slazinger ball, I wonder what they sell for $3 a ball ?(prior to Pro v's) The other fellow does the quick math that we are playing for a dime a stroke (which is a lot less then a new golf ball) and then looks at the ball and say oops this one is not mine that one is his.

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                            • #15
                              Re: What to do with cheaters?

                              People who cheat at golf will most likely cheat in other areas of their life. Eventually their cheating nature will be that individual's down fall in the other avenues they travel.

                              When I play a friendly round golf, and I find that the person I am playing with is not on the up, and up with their scoring, it is no big deal for me. That is as long as it not in a sanctioned tournament. If the tournament is sanctioned, and I see someone cheat, I am not bashful, and could care less who else hears about it.

                              Playing two ball, and/or golfing while not keeping score while on course practicing is just that...practicing.

                              I think alot of people do not realize that a "give me" still counts as a stroke on their score card. Not knowing the rules is another form of cheating to some extent, even though the person may not know they are being less than honest with their score.

                              I play the game for my own enjoyment. As for competeting with some one else, I can tell after a couple of holes who has the better game. One thing that I do believe is, that the lower the person's documented handicap number is, the more honest they are with their game. GJS

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