Re: Rules Question

Objects defining out of bounds are deemed to be fixed.

Therefore, no, the post cannot be removed without incurring a 2 stroke penalty.

Re: Rules Question

Totally agree with LowPost42, the fact it is internal (such as protecting golfers on an adjacent hole) has no bearing on this. It is a fixed obstruction. I believe that the stakes on the fairway to denote 250, 200, 150 (usually white also) and 100 yardages from the green, whether they are firmly planted or in sleeves are however subject for relief.

Re: Rules Question

Yardage markers are movable obstructions, yes.

That'll teach you to miss your own fairway! LOL

Re: Rules Question

If I've understood the scenario correctly then I'd have to disagree with the others and say yes the post could be lifted.

Lets say that holes 5 and 6 run parallel in opposite directions and that local rules say something like "the white marker posts between the 5th and 6th fairways mark OOB for the 5th hole only"*

Lets further say that I slice my drive from the 5th tee on to the 6th fairway; clearly I'm OOB and have incurred a stroke and distance penalty.

A little later, disgruntled after my double bogey on the 5th I slice my tee shot from the 6th onto the fifth fairway, now, ofcourse I can carry on playing because in this case I'm not OOB and the posts are in fact not objects marking OOB. In which case Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury I put it to you that Neil can move the obstruction without penalty.

*Hersham Village has this scenario - though different hole numbers - so we'd better get a ruling from the R&A before the GTO Open just in case.

Re: Rules Question

Well there you go, there is a decison on this very thing.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html

Q. White stakes installed between the 7th and 8th holes define out of bounds during play of the 7th hole, but they have no significance during play of the 8th hole. Are such stakes obstructions during play of the 8th hole?
A. No, the Definition of “Out of Bounds” states that such stakes are not obstructions. However, in this case it is recommended that, by Local Rule, the stakes be deemed immovable obstructions during play of the 8th hole

Neatly enough we are all correct in way which is nice; Neil check your local rules.

Re: Rules Question

I actually find it interesting that if you've put up OB stakes between adjoining fairways to keep folks from playing their balls out of the adjoining fairway, that they'd only be in play for one hole but not the other.

Granted, in that scenario, I think that perhaps marking it lateral hazard may be more appropriate, but that's only because most weekend players are going to take a stroke and drop at the margin anyway.

Re: Rules Question

Not a clear one is it?!

You have indeed read the situation correctly, which is why I worded it as such Robin.

The holes in question on my course are number 13 where there is out of bounds surrounding the teeing area for the 14th which is situated approximately 60 yards short of the 13th green on the left hand side of the fairway and rough. The OB makrkers are presumably designed to discourage players from playing towards it to protect those on the next tee, as well as to stop people playing the wrong way from the 14th tee to the 13th green. However I would say that if we all had that much control over where we hit our ball, we'd all be earning a living at the game, and probably wouldn't need the stakes anyway!

These OB stakes are for sole use on the 13th (local rule).

It so happens that when coming back down the 15th a.........erm........fairly wild drive can cross the line marked by these OB posts, it does not count as having gone out of bounds though. I struck such a wild drive this week (my consolation is that these OB stakes are a bloody long way from the 15th tee!) and my ball came to rest where I couldn't make a backswing. I decided to play sideways as nobody really could agree on what to do.

I guess then, that it would have been possible to take relief without penalty. It is kind of a moot point though as I made par and halved the hole anway, but it may go to a tribunal if I mention it down the club and could have turned that par into a birdie!!

Me and my partner could be owed some cash!

Re: Rules Question

Next time, Neil, play two balls - one out sideways and one with removing the stake. Score both, and let the committee dig up the rule and find out that you could have had a bird!

Re: Rules Question

How does that work ? I didn't see any reference to water.

Re: Rules Question

A hazard does not have to be water. Quite often it is a ravine or similar unsavory area, marked with red stakes, if lateral. It can also be up to the course to designate other areas as such.

Re: Rules Question

Don't think that would work in matchplay Ben?

Re: Rules Question

Ooh - missed the matchplay part.

Re: Rules Question

The 'course' cannot change or invent a Definition. There is no such thing as a Lateral Hazard in the Rules of Golf.
There are Lateral Water Hazards
Lateral Water Hazard
A "lateral water hazard" is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-1b.
and Water Hazards
Water Hazard
A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course . </SPAN>All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard.

Neil18's post doesn't seem to fit the definitions.

I accept it is common practice in North America to mark some areas as 'Laterals' when they are not nice but unless they can carry or contain water they are marked incorrectly. </SPAN>

Re: Rules Question

A lateral water hazard is a water hazard that is parallel with the fairway and a water hazard one that is across the fairway, sometimes one water hazard can be both.