Re: Rules question

The rules don't mention anything about relief other than the player must take complete relief (lie, stance, swing) from the immovable obstruction. It doesn't mention specifically dropping on the cart path, but does mention that if your drop ends up there, you're allowed relief from the path again.

So the question becomes if it's proper to take relief on an immovable obstruction to take further relief. If so, you're correct. If the ball must strike an area of the course through the green (ie grass), your competitor is correct.

Re: Rules question

LowPost42:

You've nicely restated my question. I'm not sure that the landscaped area is considered an immovable obstruction or ground under repair, though I'm not sure it makes a difference in procedure.

The rules state that the nearest point of relief is a place other than on the green or in a hazard. An immovable obstruction...the cart path...is not a hazard and so my interpretation is that if the cart path is the closest point that offers full relief from the landscaped area, I must drop within a club length of point A. From there I can play or take relief from the cart path as an immovable obstruction.

The competitor maintained that I couldn't take relief from the landscaped area in an area where I could a second drop. The ability to take secondary relief disqualified the cart path as acceptable releief from the landscaped area. I don't see anything in the rules that supports the competitor's position.

Anyone have any help?

Re: Rules question

Relief from a path is not a static right in the rules, you will often see players in pro competitions playing from footpaths. It is often a local rule though and in this case you would have the option of seeking further relief from the path.

Re: Rules question

BrianW,

But what about the basic question, which is: What is the proper nearest popint of relief from the landscaped area, point A or point B?

Re: Rules question

You should take relief at point 'A' unless a local rule allows further relief from footpaths. If this is the case then you can take further relief (If you wish) from the path at the nearest point of complete relief (no nearer the hole). I assume from your explanation this is point 'B' I am lost at where point 'C' is.

Re: Rules question

Go back to my original post. Point A is the nearest point of complete relief from the landscaped area and, thus, the point at which I believed I had to take relief. Point A provides a clear line to the green. Point A is on a cartpath that is adjacent to a good portion of the perimeter of the landscaped area.

Point B is in grass off the back of the landscaped area. It is the closest grassy place of relief from the landscaped area. A large shrub, however, is located directly between Point B and the green--the place where my competitor said I need to drop because, he maintained, I could not take relief at Point A because it was on a cart path and could lead to taking further relief. Point B is about 12 feet away from point A, but is a few feet further than Point A from where my ball landed in the landscaped area.

Point C is the nearest point of relief from Point A on the cartpath and had the advantage of being on the same clear line to the green as Point A. Point C is about four feet away (the width of a cartpath) from Point A.

So, the basic question is: was the closest legal point of relief from the landscaped area Point A, which was on a cartpath but not in a hazard (and which offered the benefit of preserving a clear line to the green)? Or, as my competitor asserted, was the closest legal point of relief from the landscaped area Point B, which (a) would not lead to a situation in which I would be allowed to take further relief, but (b) did not offer a clear path to the green?

Said another way: Is the proper closest point of relief from the landscaped area:
(a) THE closest point of complete releif from the landscaped area that is not in a hazard or on the green, even if it is on an immovable obstruction (a cart path), which could lead to further relief, or
(b) the closest point of complete relief from the landscaped area where no further relief could possibly be taken?

Re: Rules question

The nearest point of relief is 'A' and you should take relief from there. If there is a local rule that you may take relief from cart paths then you should take the nearest point of relief from the path, point 'B' . Point 'C' is not a proper point of relief as it is not the nearest point. The issue of the bush in the line of play is not relevant, points of relief should be nearest irrespective of the line to the hole.

Re: Rules question

Thanks BrianW...you've answered the basic question even if the downstream stuff is off. The basic question is: which is the proper point from the landscape, "A" or "B" and it seems you agree with my interpretation that "A" was proper.

Once relief is taken at "A", IF relief is to be taken from the cart path, the determination of nearest relief starts over with respect to the drop at point "A". From the cart path, point "C" is nearest relief, not "B". So, after relief to Point "A", I have the option of playing form "A" or taking relief at "C". "B" is no longer in the picture.

I get that the presence of the shrub is irrelevant to the determination of nearest relief, but it WAS relevant to the practical circumstances that led to the disagreement and potential motivation of my competitor. More importantly, the possibility of subsequent relief is JUST as irrelevant to determining the nearest point of relief.

Thanks again.

Re: Rules question

Relief is automatically available from cart paths (as they are Immovable Obstructions by definition). You don't get relief if there is a Local Rule saying they are an integral part of the course.

I'm afraid you have it the wrong way round. See the definition of Obstructions (Immovable).