i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

What a washout of a weekend here, it has poured down and closed the courses.

Paid a few visits to the range and worked some more on ball striking with some nice results, I could feel that great ball compression happening.

Off the point a little I worked on something else. I have noticed when using impact spray that the higher the ball is teed the closer I hit towards the heel, more with the driver and dropping towards the centre as the ball gets lower to the ground. After thinking this through over a coffee a light bulb lit up! If you ground the driver behind the ball so that the ball is centre, then lift it to ball height the ball will be aligned to the heel. It has to, just try it. Aligning the ball off the toe when grounded at address brings it back perfectly at impact, the same happens with other clubs by differing amounts depending on how high they are teed.

I came home and ran a number of tour pros swings down the line through my VI software, marking lines down the shaft at address then at impact, there was a marked difference between the plane of the shaft at address and at impact. At impact the arms had extended and the plane was on average 10 to 15 deg higher. This also encouraged me to align towards the toe at address with irons off the ground. Impact was nicely centered every time.

Great stuff this impact spray and free VI software.

[slater170]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

What a washout of a weekend here, it has poured down and closed the courses.

Paid a few visits to the range and worked some more on ball striking with some nice results, I could feel that great ball compression happening.

Off the point a little I worked on something else. I have noticed when using impact spray that the higher the ball is teed the closer I hit towards the heel, more with the driver and dropping towards the centre as the ball gets lower to the ground. After thinking this through over a coffee a light bulb lit up! If you ground the driver behind the ball so that the ball is centre, then lift it to ball height the ball will be aligned to the heel. It has to, just try it. Aligning the ball off the toe when grounded at address brings it back perfectly at impact, the same happens with other clubs by differing amounts depending on how high they are teed.

I came home and ran a number of tour pros swings down the line through my VI software, marking lines down the shaft at address then at impact, there was a marked difference between the plane of the shaft at address and at impact. At impact the arms had extended and the plane was on average 10 to 15 deg higher. This also encouraged me to align towards the toe at address with irons off the ground. Impact was nicely centered every time.

Great stuff this impact spray and free VI software.

good stuff brian

after playing on saturday im going to start a new thread titled " i used the 3 skills and sh*nked,topped,hooked,sliced it"
not overly worried, golf is hard enough without playing in 3 layers of rainsoaked clothes and a real temperature of +2 degrees

[Neil18]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Off the point a little I worked on something else. I have noticed when using impact spray that the higher the ball is teed the closer I hit towards the heel, more with the driver and dropping towards the centre as the ball gets lower to the ground. After thinking this through over a coffee a light bulb lit up! If you ground the driver behind the ball so that the ball is centre, then lift it to ball height the ball will be aligned to the heel. It has to, just try it. Aligning the ball off the toe when grounded at address brings it back perfectly at impact, the same happens with other clubs by differing amounts depending on how high they are teed.

I came home and ran a number of tour pros swings down the line through my VI software, marking lines down the shaft at address then at impact, there was a marked difference between the plane of the shaft at address and at impact. At impact the arms had extended and the plane was on average 10 to 15 deg higher. This also encouraged me to align towards the toe at address with irons off the ground. Impact was nicely centered every time.

Great stuff this impact spray and free VI software.

Funny you should mention that Brian.

I have been doing a little indoor research into swing consistency whilst the weather is a little on the damp side.

I have obtained a load of footage of current PGA tour players driver swings from down-the-line and put them on V1.

I have also footage of Ben Hogan and Sam Snead from down-the-line.

This may or may not surprise everyone, but out of 17 modern day professionals I have footage for, only one gets the clubshaft angle at impact anywhere near the same as it was at address. Guess who??!!

And I'm not talking journeymen here. Scott, Vijay, Ernie, Garcia, Donald, Choi, Casey, Poulter etc etc. The list is almost endless of modern professional players that cannot or do not bring the shaft through impact on plane.

Tiger is the only one who does it.

On the other hand, Snead and Hogan both religiously brought the shaft through on plane, and they were two of the most accurate hitters the game has ever seen.

It's why Tiger has so much more ball control and confidence in where the ball is going.

It actually staggered me to look at some of the pro swings in slow motion. Some of them are awful! I hope he would forgive me if he ever read this, but the swing of Ben Curtis holds absolutley no aesthetic pleasures whatsoever for me. Poor turn, no lag, flippy at impact.............and he's won the Open!

But they make a living, so playing golf well enough to earn a living from it has almost nothing to do with what your swing looks like.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

[golfseeker]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

I believe that people don't realize that the club head actually drops down somewhat because of its weight upon impact. This is especially true with your woods. It is also true with the irons as well. If you notice the driver is designed so that it is toe up at address but at impact it is square. I once watched Dave Pelz demonstrate hitting a ball a couple of feet off the ground in a bush. He said that you have to aim your club above the ball a couple of inches in order to hit it square. I think that Jack Nicklaus does this with his driver. He hovers above the ground at address everytime and hits crisp shots everytime as well.

[bdbl]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

good stuff brian

after playing on saturday im going to start a new thread titled " i used the 3 skills and sh*nked,topped,hooked,sliced it"
not overly worried, golf is hard enough without playing in 3 layers of rainsoaked clothes and a real temperature of +2 degrees

Look on the bright side Ian, at least 3Skills is expanding your game; I'm not using it and last time out I just hooked, hooked, hooked and hooked again.

Consistent I suppose though.

[bdbl]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

After thinking this through over a coffee a light bulb lit up! If you ground the driver behind the ball so that the ball is centre, then lift it to ball height the ball will be aligned to the heel. It has to, just try it. Aligning the ball off the toe when grounded at address brings it back perfectly at impact, the same happens with other clubs by differing amounts depending on how high they are teed.

By Jove Brian; you're right - just been messing about in the garden and I can see the the alignment change as I lift the club, I'll incorporate some adjustments into my setup next time I'm at the range and see what works best with a full swing.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Guys,

During this cold, wet and totally sickening time of our year when golfers become depressed with playing golf in soggy fields with wet clothes and a bag on your back all day................I am sure Tiger would play great with a wet bag on his back and six layers of wet so called waterproofs, other than that Merry Christmas to you all.

I have been watching YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. enter 'swing vision' in and all the tour players come up in super slow-mo, great viewing. I too took on board Brians comments about the driver, the difference I see the pros come down more inside on the downswing to return the club back in the middle, of course only because they obviously read about 3SKs......most golfers do the same but from the outside hence slicers.............!!!!!!

Ian.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Guys,

During this cold, wet and totally sickening time of our year when golfers become depressed with playing golf in soggy fields with wet clothes and a bag on your back all day................I am sure Tiger would play great with a wet bag on his back and six layers of wet so called waterproofs, other than that Merry Christmas to you all.

I have been watching YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. enter 'swing vision' in and all the tour players come up in super slow-mo, great viewing. I too took on board Brians comments about the driver, the difference I see the pros come down more inside on the downswing to return the club back in the middle, of course only because they obviously read about 3SKs......most golfers do the same but from the outside hence slicers.............!!!!!!

Ian.

Hi Ian,

I was not really looking at the club coming inside it is more a case of the plane or angle the club lies at when addressed and at impact. In just about every case the shaft at impact is around 15 deg higher than it was at address. If you address the ball then pushed your arms up by straightening and extending an inch or two you would replicate the effect. I think it is due to the additional extension of the arms when swinging as opposed to the relaxed and slightly flexed elbows at address.

The main point of this was related to my comments on grounding the head of a driver(or any club) centered to the ball when teed at address, especially when teed high. The club will return the clubface near the heel at impact. After studying this and doing some tests with impact spray I found that I get a centre hit in almost all cases when aligning the ball towards the toe of the club.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Sorry Brian,

Now I see where your coming from, the answer is at impact due to the forces involved the shaft actually bend down ) like this at impact hence the hands being on a higher plane at impact.

Watch a trick shot artist, they will tell you aim higher than the ball when hitting one off a gate post.

Or so I believe.

Ian.

[qassim]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Sorry Brian,

Now I see where your coming from, the answer is at impact due to the forces involved the shaft actually bend down ) like this at impact hence the hands being on a higher plane at impact.

Watch a trick shot artist, they will tell you aim higher than the ball when hitting one off a gate post.

Or so I believe.

Ian.

This is a really good and timely discussion for me as I too have spent the last few weeks just experimenting rather than going out and playing in the bad weather.

I noticed that when taking the club away very slowly from the address position to a point where my hands were oppositite my right thigh and then bringing the club back to the ball at the same speed that the club was coming back to the ball closer to the heel. This was happening as a result of me straightening my wrists slightly.

In a full swing however, as Ian has pointed out, the shaft flexes (bend downwards) so this must have been cancelling out the effect of my wrists straightening.

I am now going to try and keep my wrist postion stable and start adressing the ball more with the toe of the club. This will then ensure that there is only one variable at play i.e. the the club shaft flexing.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Sorry Brian,

Now I see where your coming from, the answer is at impact due to the forces involved the shaft actually bend down ) like this at impact hence the hands being on a higher plane at impact.

Watch a trick shot artist, they will tell you aim higher than the ball when hitting one off a gate post.

Or so I believe.

Ian.

This picture shows what I am referring to with plane at impact and address, the green lines show shaft and hand position at address and red at impact. I think its not due to shaft bend but wrist and arm extension.


http://s245.photobucket.com/albums/g...g/Baddeley.jpg

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Hi Brian,

Yes I see what you mean, this could be just natural with all of us because we set up relaxed and not really how we intend to come back to the ball, I think it would be difficult to set-up in the attacking position, well may be Mo Norman he does.

http://www.golfdigest.co.za/images/i...uction_4_1.jpg

The shaft does bend down at impact so possible a bit of both.



Ian.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Guys,

Found a you tube analysis of Moe Norman.

Hope this helps

Ian.

[BrianW]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Guys,

Found a you tube analysis of Moe Norman.

YouTube - Why Moe Norman's swing is simpler and more efficient


Hope this helps

Ian.

Ian,

yes spot on with that video. The conventional swing shows what I was on about, Moe has a one plane swing that stays on the same plane.

I am trying to relate this to how we address the ball, I have found out by experiment with impact spray that I was tending to hit towards the heel and particularly with a driver where the ball is teed high and the club grounded and centred at address.

I was hoping it may help others who may get the same effects.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: i used the 3 skills and nailed it!

Brian,

I watched that one and a few others posted there, one thing stands out above all else to me.

He uses the 3SKs and nothing else at all..............

secondly his confidence is totally unbelieveable, more than Tiger will ever have, if Moe Norman ever missed one shot I am sure he would faint.

I watched my son in slow-mo too his hands are higher at impact however the clubhead is in the same place, obviously it has to be or he would miss the ball, I think it could be called the 'Moe' effect. Something that all players do if they know it or not.

Interesting

Ian.