Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

[bill reed]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

hi
your clip is testing a milled face against a standard face club and that like chalk and cheese and i said before a milled face club will add more spin as the club face grips the ball, the space of the groves don't grip the ball as the ball don't compress into the groves but does compress on the the club face, if you have a club face like sandpaper then it grips more than a face like glass, but even a glass face if angled enough will impart spin.
if groves did impart spin then it would be a very hit and miss affair as you never get the ball and the groves in the same point and also the dimples of the ball would have an impact on grip.
sometimes catching the ball between groves before it start to sin up the face and other times catching the ball on the grove before it spins.
if you look at some of the wedges from the 1800 you will see that they had no middle and it you get the chance to use one you will it does impart backspin. i still have a set of dimples clubs from the 30s and the wedge can spin a ball as good as some of the newer wedges.
but that is more to do with the balls we now use if you try using the old British ball you get very little spin.
so the ball plays a big part. and it was only 1972 that the British ball started to fade out and the American bigger ball took over.
the soft outer core balls the pros use get scuffed and marked after just a few holes and most pros change there balls at least twice in a round. most of us use the same ball for weeks, the ball we use and they use will make more difference that the state of the groves on most armatures wedges.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

It is clear that there are many conflicting views on the affect that grooves have which will never be resolved. However i am selling this item due to the many positive testimonials it has received from the people who have used it. Whatever the science is behind the process many customers experience a noticeable difference and are pleased with their purchase because of this.

Clean grooves do help with hitting out of rough and in wet conditions. That's about it.

On another point: This site is a forum for golf discussion and help, it is not a forum to advertise your products for free. You can subscribe to an advert by contacting the forum owners.

[Shaggy]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

If i have offended you by creating this thread then i very much apologize However as the discussion topic where i posted the thread is titled "EBAY Golf Equipment - Clubs - Items - Clothing" i assumed that i was within the rules and etiquette to post the thread which i did.
Being new to this forum im sure you could see my confusion if i have misinterpreted the discussion topic.

[BrianW]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

If i have offended you by creating this thread then i very much apologize However as the discussion topic where i posted the thread is titled "EBAY Golf Equipment - Clubs - Items - Clothing" i assumed that i was within the rules and etiquette to post the thread which i did.
Being new to this forum im sure you could see my confusion if i have misinterpreted the discussion topic.

No offence mate. The thread was meant to tell others of any good buys but not really to advertise your own business. No real problem.

[groovesharpener]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Hi,

I have read with great interest and some incredulity the above debate about the non-effect of grooves on golf clubs.

I purchased one of these groove sharpeners from:

http://www.groovesharpener.net

I reasoned that if club manufacturers stopped putting grooves on drivers to reduce spin, the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that the grooves must increase spin, I cannot see the likes of Taylormade making this radical technological change purely to improve their sales volume when they are already the industry leader in driver sales.

I found the sharpener extremely easy - redefining the edges of my clubs grooves in a few minutes, and took particular notice of the fact that the grooves dimensions would remain legal.
Each club was regrooved so to speak in a few minutes, and when I returned to the range I was astonished with the reclamation of the spin I had enjoyed prior to the deterioration the grooves had suffered since purchasing my clubs 12 months ago.

No one on this planet will ever convince me that grooves don't impart spin. I was once fortunate to have a close look at Phil Micklesons bag, particularly his wedges - he was carrying five and all of them were grooved. I am stroke index 3 and was a scratch golfer in my younger days.

[BrianW]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Hi,

I have read with great interest and some incredulity the above debate about the non-effect of grooves on golf clubs.

I purchased one of these groove sharpeners from:

http://www.groovesharpener.net

I reasoned that if club manufacturers stopped putting grooves on drivers to reduce spin, the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that the grooves must increase spin, I cannot see the likes of Taylormade making this radical technological change purely to improve their sales volume when they are already the industry leader in driver sales.

I found the sharpener extremely easy - redefining the edges of my clubs grooves in a few minutes, and took particular notice of the fact that the grooves dimensions would remain legal.
Each club was regrooved so to speak in a few minutes, and when I returned to the range I was astonished with the reclamation of the spin I had enjoyed prior to the deterioration the grooves had suffered since purchasing my clubs 12 months ago.

No one on this planet will ever convince me that grooves don't impart spin. I was once fortunate to have a close look at Phil Micklesons bag, particularly his wedges - he was carrying five and all of them were grooved. I am stroke index 3 and was a scratch golfer in my younger days.

Grooves are necessary on irons but have little effect in producing spin, the surface roughness is what effects spin the most. Grooves improve the performance when hitting out of the rough when grass gets trapped between the surface of the clubface and the ball, they wick away the moisture in exactly the same way as the tread of a car tyre does in the rain. Like a car tyre the best grip is made with a slick surface.

Grooves are not required on drivers because grass does not get trapped between the face and ball because the ball is teed up. Grooves will create weak points on the surface of large headed thin faced drivers. The surface is also kept smooth to reduce the gripping effect thus resulting in less spin being produced.

I carry 4 wedges because they are great scoring tools, not because they have grooves, all my irons have grooves. Phil Michelson's wedges have grooves for the same reason that mine do, for using them out the rough.

Do not close your mind to technology, why are you so adamant that grooves must produce spin when the facts of golf ballistics show otherwise? Please read the section of the following article that refers to Grooves.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swing2.php?ref=

[LowPost42]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Grooves DO increase spin - to the measure of 300 rpm versus no grooves on a 7 iron (courtesy R. Maltby).

The real question is, is it a playable difference?

I'll wager spin milling does more for you than grooves... I may have to destroy some SMT durometers to verify.

[BrianW]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Grooves DO increase spin - to the measure of 300 rpm versus no grooves on a 7 iron (courtesy R. Maltby).

The real question is, is it a playable difference?

I'll wager spin milling does more for you than grooves... I may have to destroy some SMT durometers to verify.

Extensive tests were carried out by Alastair Cochran & John Stobbs into the effective spin and distance obtained with smooth and grooved clubs, these tests showed negligible differences. The surface roughness of the club had the major effect, Spin milling roughens the surface texture.

[bill reed]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

hi lowpost
yes i did read that milled faced wedges put more spin on a ball than non milled face clubs and also milled face clubs gave much greater spin even with the same grove pattern as the non milled face. also a none grove milled face club gave more spin than the grover milled face as the ball was gripped with more face.
the big benefit came when used out of rough and sand and the grooved club was better than the none grooved milled club. the milled face grove club gave much the same results as the grooved club out of rough and sand.
the big benefit of milled face clubs are when on the fairway and then they give you much more spin.
lowpost have you tried using a soft skin ball with the SMT durometer wedges.
i did and boy do they mark and scuff the ball. even with the hard balls they scuff them so it easy to see that they do grip the ball more.
cheers
bill

[LowPost42]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Those Duro's certainly do have teeth.

I prefer the new Wishon wedges - micro-grooves AND a milled face; ton's of spin but less damage to balls.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

I learned a long time ago that you can find any type of info to support an arguement, and/or not support the same arguement on the WWW. My take on grooves are that from a clean, normal dry lie they offer little effect of increased spin. On lies in the rough, or during wet conditions they offer a little more spin, but not much (if any) more spin than I get from a clean lie. Rough (grass) and wet conditions act as a lubricant. Grooves counteract the slippage created by rough (grass), and wet conditions. Also, regardless of the conditions of the grooves I think the type of ball used probably has more to do with how much spin is created at impact. I have personally seen too many demostrations where the golfer was spinning balls back with wedges that had no grooves. It was the steeper angle of attack to impact that created the most spin. That, and the conditions of the landing area. This is one of those arguments that I think falls under the mental side of golf. If you think grooves create more spin which makes you a better golfer then in your mind they do. If you think they don't and you play just as well as the other group then in your mind they don't. I can't remember the last time I thought about the condition of the grooves on my irons. I do clean my clubs after each shot, but I am more concerned about the condition of my grips than the grooves when wanting to play consistantly well. GJS

[BrianW]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

I learned a long time ago that you can find any type of info to support an arguement, and/or not support the same arguement on the WWW. My take on grooves are that from a clean, normal dry lie they offer little effect of increased spin. On lies in the rough, or during wet conditions they offer a little more spin, but not much (if any) more spin than I get from a clean lie. Rough (grass) and wet conditions act as a lubricant. Grooves counteract the slippage created by rough (grass), and wet conditions. Also, regardless of the conditions of the grooves I think the type of ball used probably has more to do with how much spin is created at impact. I have personally seen too many demostrations where the golfer was spinning balls back with wedges that had no grooves. It was the steeper angle of attack to impact that created the most spin. That, and the conditions of the landing area. This is one of those arguments that I think falls under the mental side of golf. If you think grooves create more spin which makes you a better golfer then in your mind they do. If you think they don't and you play just as well as the other group then in your mind they don't. I can't remember the last time I thought about the condition of the grooves on my irons. I do clean my clubs after each shot, but I am more concerned about the condition of my grips than the grooves when wanting to play consistantly well. GJS

I concur fully with you GJS.

[golfunderrepair]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

I concur fully with you GJS.

Me too. Backspin certainly seems to be the acid test of some level of aptitude nowadays (at least according to all the two bit instruction videos on YouTube).

If my approaches require landing the ball on a penny I'm more concerned about getting it to bite and stop than about seeing the ball reel back twenty feet and for me this is more about shooting the ball in the air so it lands as softly as possible. At least this is the image I have in my head and this doesn't have much to do with the grooves on my sw.

Anyway, here is what Terry Koehler from Eidolon wrote the other week about the new groove regulations and how they may (or not) affect things.

http://www.thewedgeguy.com/usga-rules-on-grooves/

Tim.

[jigfisher9]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Here is a snipit of a recent article by Josh Babbit of TheGolfersParadise .com that give a review of three types of Groove Sharpeners.

First up to bat is the Golf Club Medic. It is the easiest tool to find as most golf stores seem to carry it. We picked ours up for $9.99 and it says it is USGA “okay”. The directions seem easy enough, as it says just slide in and out of your wedges grooves to clean and revive them. We did that on my Titleist Vokey 50 degree wedge that I had just played with. It cleaned them out just fine, but did not look like it changes anything at all. In fact it felt no different than if I had used a toothpick. Very good at cleaning, but we did not think the sharpening factor was really apparent. Hit a few balls with it on the range and my feeling was confirmed. It did not do a whole lot other than clean the clubs. Another problem we ran into with this device is that it is very flimsy. The device itself was getting shaved down rather than the metal from the wedges. It could probably clean one more club before it broke. Definately not something I would pick up again unless you just want to use it for a club cleaner.

Next up was the Groove Sharpener from www.Groovesharpener.com. This device clearly had a different feel than the club medic. We purchased 1 from their site for $19.99. It came two days later and seemed like a solid piece of equipment. It is solid as a rock and has two ends to it wrapped in a rubber tip for storage. One side is for V cut grooves and the other U cut grooves. Well labeled and sharp as can be. The instructions seemed simple. Run the device through the grooves and we did that on a Titleist Vokey 54 degree wedge. you could see little shavings coming off and when finished, the grooves looked brand new again. Hit some balls and could see the ball dance like it did when I first bought this wedge. A few of things of warning. First, make sure you know what type of grooves you have on your clubs. Second, when using it, be very careful. It is sharp and you dont want to catch a finger. Third, pay attention while using it, because if you slide past the grooves on your wedges, you will leave scratch marks on the face. Overall, we liked this product and the durability is fantastic. I could see this thing last for years to come.

Last but not least was the Groove Mate. We placed an order for this device and it arrived about 5 days later. It costs a lot more at $31.49. It also says that it will “bring your clubs back to USGA Legal”. We are not sure about all of that, but like the little device quite a bit. Much easier to hold and use than the other Groove Sharpener. Basically the same instructions as the others in which you slide the mate at the angle you need for your wedges. It worked quite well and we had no complaints in use. It was a little easier to control than the previous model, but the results were both good. Did this one on a 60 degree Titleist Vokey wedge and hit it afterwards. Very similar results and seems to work as advertised. We thought this one was a little pricey for us, but you do get a little bit more safety with the polished handle.

So after the 3 reviews, what were our conclusions. The Club Medic was not our cup of tea. It just did not do much other than clean our grooves out. As for the other two. They both worked well and did the same thing. So most would say go with the cheaper product. Here is where it is a preference thing. I really preferred the Groove Mate because of the handle it it seemed a little safer to use. My playing partner preferred the Groove Sharpener because it did the same thing and was cheaper. So it is all about preference. But one thing we both agreed on, was that they definately revived our wedges and made them work like they were brand new. Till next time.

These products are available on ebay.

[bdbl]

Re: Wedge groove sharpener, keeps grooves legal!

Hmm all I know is that I get the ball beyond the flag so inconsistently and infrequently that I'm keeping my grooves nice and blunt just in case

Seriously though most people I see would do well to remember that pro spin works best with pro distance control; the rest of us might be better off with a little roll and trundle.