my swing, face on. is it ott?

[gman4500]

Re: my swing, face on. is it ott?

Looks to me like my old swing, everyone said it looked good but it just wasn't happening. Solution=move right shoulder away from target on backswing to get most all your weight on your right heel and then you can really push down into the ground with right foot on downswing and have a much straighter path into the ball. Just don't sway your hips. good luck.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: my swing, face on. is it ott?

From the still pictures (middle bottom picture in particular) it looks to me that your right shoulder is much too high at this point in the downswing. A high right shoulder indicates to me that your right shoulder is not swinging down the swing plane line, but instead hanging back. This may be your idea on how to prevent an over-the-top swing. However, keeping your right shoulder back causes the right arm's angle to open up and thus a weak swing that is usually outside-to-in swing path, which you were trying to prevent. This high right shoulder also causes a loss of the lag angle.

I disagree, I think the right shoulder is in an acceptable position (downline is a better view to examine shoulder movement). Nick Faldo, Ernie Els, Nick Price, and many other pros advocate keeping the right shoulder in its tops of swing position as you seperate the hands and arms from it starting down. The right wrist and the club dropping behind the body is what maintains the lag. Having the right shoulder pull forward starting down can cause the club to drop on a steep angle coming down, and diping the shoulder can cause the arms to get jamed behind the body.
The original poster's right shoulder isn't in that different a position from Nick Faldo and Trevor Immelman in the pictures below:

Faldo:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1...equencecg6.jpg

Immelman:
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...manfacepd3.jpg

Look at Sergio Garcia who many say has the most lag of any professional golfer today he has his shoulder at the same height, and he seperates the hand and arm from it on the way down.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: my swing, face on. is it ott?

I totally disagree! Holding the right shoulder back while dropping the arms causes a total disconnect.

Having the arms gain width as they move away from the right shoulder does not mean the upper arms need to disconnect from the chest. This can be proven by tucking a towel or headcover(s) under the arm pits (like so many pros do). Swing to the top and have the width between the hands/arms and the right shoulder widen as the downswing starts. The towel (or headcover(s)) can remain wedged in the arm pit(s) while this occurs, and thus prove that no disconnection occurs.
I believe the upper arms and upper chest should stay in sync turning together during the swing, and I think Annika Sorenstam is an excellent example of the arms and chest in sync swinging.
http://drop.io/sorenstamsync

Also, here is a video of Trevor Immelman that shows without question that in the downswing his right shoulder and arm swing are connected and beautifully married. His arms do NOT separate from his right shoulder at the start of the downswing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao-rMRl6TRY

I've taken screen captures of Immelman from that video and it shows that the arms are moving a significant distance while the right shoulder moves very little during the early downswing. Thus illistrating that the forearms are seperating from the right shoulder.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5...owshirtbh7.jpg

In Immelman's own words he has said that he feels like the arms swing down before the body.
http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/f...reaction_7.jpg

For another example drag Sergio Garcia to the top of the swing, and then move him forward frame by frame and you will see the arms drop while the right shoulder and back stay turned away from the target.
http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio.../sergio_upline

PS - Nick Faldo has indeed said that he has the feeling he is keeping his right shoulder back at the start of the downswing, however I believe he actually means that he doesn't want his right shoulder to move outward into an over-the-top movement.Like all professionals Faldo uses the right shoulder/side as a piston. The left arm does separate (increases distance between the right shoulder and left arm/hand) deep into the downswing as the angles open.

The two Nicks (Nick Faldo and Nick Price) have said they keep the right shoulder back and feel like they have the distance between the hands and right shoulder get farther apart to produce width. As Leadbetter, Mclean, Butch Harmon, and Rick Smith have each said if the right shoulder moves down the swing narrows, and the right arm gets jammed behind the body. From there a few things can happen: the club does not release and the shot is blocked to the right, the arms flip over and the ball goes left, and/or the club bottoms out behind the ball (and a fat shot results).

Edit to respond to statement about Ernie Els:

Here is Ernie Els' swing, which clearly displays that Ernie's right shoulder and his arms/hands are starting the downswing in unison. There is definitely no separation between his right shoulder and arms/hands at the start of his downswing as you suggest.

Here is an image that shows Ernie Els arms drop down while his shoulders stay high and on the same tilt they had just before and at the top of the swing.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5...sseq345kz3.jpg