ball postion in relation to left heel.

[killiansred]

I'm killing myself with all the different information I've taken in on ball position in relation to left heel. I've read Jack Nicklaus book Golf My Way and he says you should play every shot with the ball off of the left heel. But I've been told you should move the ball back as the irons get shorter. I've been trying to do both with mixed results, I want to know what the majority of you out there are doing and what do most of the pros do? Any video or pictures would be great. Thanks again.

[bill reed]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

hi
i play the same as Jack and Ben Hogan in the ball stays in the same place for all my irons and my driver.
i address the ball with my feet together and first move my left foot a few inches to the left so the ball is just inside my left heal and i move my right foot away further with the longer the club. with the driver my right foot is about 18 behind the ball and with my 7 iron its about a foot away and with a wedge about 9 inches.
i also have an open stance when i swing even with the driver so my right foot also moves forward more the shorter the club.
if you can get yourself Hogans the modern fundamentals of golf from the library( they should have it as is the most read golf book ever) and look at page 125 it explains it a lot better than i can.
best of luck
bill

[GoNavy]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

There are two schools of golf on this point, if you keep the same relative width to your stance for woods and irons, then you should move the ball back in your stance as the clubs get shorter. If you change the width of your stance for clubs from woods, long irons and short irons play the ball in the same place roughly two inches back from the left heel.

A better way since your stance can change from one day to the next, is to place the ball in relation to your body, I play woods/driver off my left shoulder, long irons off my left arm pit, mid irons left ear, and short iron directly under my chin. This way a slight change in the width of my stance from one day to the next, has very little effect, in addition I don't have to make adjustments in uphill/downhill situation since my body lean (matching shoulders to hill) to accommodate the hill, already takes care of that, if I stuck with the two inches off the left hill in uphill situation for instance, without making the adjustment for the hill, I would probably fat the shot. A top shot would probably occur in a downhill situation.

You will notice if you apply the two methods above, it works out about the same. In the case of the left heel method - Even if the ball is two inches off the left heel, with a wide stance your body moves back, the ball will be forward near the shoulder or arm pit, as you narrow the stance the ball moves in relation to the body regardless of the fact it has maintained it's relationship with the left heel. Try it and see, by the time you narrow the stance to just six or eight inches for a wedge, the ball will be in the center of the stance with the weight on the left side, physically the ball has not moved from the original two inches off the left heel, only the relative position to the body has changed.

The other method of keeping the same width of stance requires you to move the ball progressively back in the stance as the clubs get shorter, this is in my opinion the most difficult way to setup, since even a change of one inch in stance width can have a drastic effect on your shot.

[killiansred]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

There are two schools of golf on this point, if you keep the same relative width to your stance for woods and irons, then you should move the ball back in your stance as the clubs get shorter. If you change the width of your stance for clubs from woods, long irons and short irons play the ball in the same place roughly two inches back from the left heel.

A better way since your stance can change from one day to the next, is to place the ball in relation to your body, I play woods/driver off my left shoulder, long irons off my left arm pit, mid irons left ear, and short iron directly under my chin. This way a slight change in the width of my stance from one day to the next, has very little effect, in addition I don't have to make adjustments in uphill/downhill situation since my body lean (matching shoulders to hill) to accommodate the hill, already takes care of that, if I stuck with the two inches off the left hill in uphill situation for instance, without making the adjustment for the hill, I would probably fat the shot. A top shot would probably occur in a downhill situation.

You will notice if you apply the two methods above, it works out about the same. In the case of the left heel method - Even if the ball is two inches off the left heel, with a wide stance your body moves back, the ball will be forward near the shoulder or arm pit, as you narrow the stance the ball moves in relation to the body regardless of the fact it has maintained it's relationship with the left heel. Try it and see, by the time you narrow the stance to just six or eight inches for a wedge, the ball will be in the center of the stance with the weight on the left side, physically the ball has not moved from the original two inches off the left heel, only the relative position to the body has changed.

The other method of keeping the same width of stance requires you to move the ball progressively back in the stance as the clubs get shorter, this is in my opinion the most difficult way to setup, since even a change of one inch in stance width can have a drastic effect on your shot.

Thanks for the response. I will try your method and see how that works.

[AvidGolfer]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

I'm killing myself with all the different information I've taken in on ball position in relation to left heel. I've read Jack Nicklaus book Golf My Way and he says you should play every shot with the ball off of the left heel. But I've been told you should move the ball back as the irons get shorter. I've been trying to do both with mixed results, I want to know what the majority of you out there are doing and what do most of the pros do? Any video or pictures would be great. Thanks again.

You've been given pretty good information from Bill and GoNavy. Like them I prefer a constant ball position in line with the shirt logo/left armpit. Pros who advocate(d) a constant ball position include: Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Jack Nickalus, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Nick Price, Charles Howell, Adam Scott, Retief Goosen, Trevor Immelman, and Annika Sorenstam.

Here is a picture of pros at setup (with a green line drawn straight up from the ball). You'll notice that none of them has the ball positioned any father back than the left ear, shirt logo area (even with the wedges). The position relative to the upper body with the driver is dependent on spine tilt. The players that have more spine tilt have the line closer to the edge of the front shoulder.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/254...ballposdg0.jpg

[BrianW]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

I am a great proponent of a static ball position. I would just add another point that I think is important and that is the position of the sternum in relation to the movement of the right foot when using this method.

Nick Bradley has a good section on this in his book "The 7 Laws of the Golf Swing" As the right foot is moved back and forward for each club then the Sternum (Chest Bone) needs to move relative to it. The position of the sternum represents where the spine and weight is positioned.

For the driver the right foot will be moved back to create a fairly wide stance, the sternum should also be moved back thus bringing the low point of the swing with it, this will promote a lower approach to the ball and help with a slightly upwards blow. With longer irons, woods and hybrids the right foot will move in a little and the sternum will follow so a shallow downward blow can be made. Mid irons the right foot and sternum move so that weight is fairly central to the ball allowing a nice descending swing. With short irons and wedges the sternum will be just ahead of the ball so a steeper angle of attack can be made.

I hope this is of some assistance.

[jambalaya]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

I am a great proponent of a static ball position. I would just add another point that I think is important and that is the position of the sternum in relation to the movement of the right foot when using this method.

Nick Bradley has a good section on this in his book "The 7 Laws of the Golf Swing" As the right foot is moved back and forward for each club then the Sternum (Chest Bone) needs to move relative to it. The position of the sternum represents where the spine and weight is positioned.

For the driver the right foot will be moved back to create a fairly wide stance, the sternum should also be moved back thus bringing the low point of the swing with it, this will promote a lower approach to the ball and help with a slightly upwards blow. With longer irons, woods and hybrids the right foot will move in a little and the sternum will follow so a shallow downward blow can be made. Mid irons the right foot and sternum move so that weight is fairly central to the ball allowing a nice descending swing. With short irons and wedges the sternum will be just ahead of the ball so a steeper angle of attack can be made.

I hope this is of some assistance.

Meaning more or less tilt of the spine to the rear or right foot correct? Relatively big tilt with driver and no tilt with the pitching wedge. I just didn't want anyone getting confused with how to actually move the sternum.

This has me thinking about hitting fat shots. Maybe my spine tilt is wrong on my irons. I am kinda thinking I always tilt back. Makes sense. Tilt more forward with the short irons and maybe I can control that better.

[jambalaya]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

I have always moved the ball around in my stance rather than a constant ball position and widening stance. If I could find some systematic way of gauging the width of my stance with each club I may try it but I have done the other so long it is tough to change.

[bill reed]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

hi Jambalaya
look at page 125 of hogans "the 5 fundamentals of modern golf" has i good diagram in it.
cheers
bill

[BrianW]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

I have always moved the ball around in my stance rather than a constant ball position and widening stance. If I could find some systematic way of gauging the width of my stance with each club I may try it but I have done the other so long it is tough to change.

Its not so different. You want the ball forward in the stance with a driver so move your right foot back just outside your right shoulder. A little less forward with long clubs so right foot in a bit, You want it centre of stance with mid irons then move the foot so the ball is in the centre. Chipping etc, move the right foot so it is closer to the ball than the left.

The way to gauge it is no different than what you do now.

[jambalaya]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

Its not so different. You want the ball forward in the stance with a driver so move your right foot back just outside your right shoulder. A little less forward with long clubs so right foot in a bit, You want it centre of stance with mid irons then move the foot so the ball is in the centre. Chipping etc, move the right foot so it is closer to the ball than the left.

The way to gauge it is no different than what you do now.

Here is my confusion. Look at some of the images that Avidgolfer posted and the address position of some of those who are using a driver. The only way that the ball is going to come close to being in the middle of the stance with a pitching wedge is if your two feet are almost touching. Ernie Els seems to have a more reasonable ball position that would lend itself to the method as does Annika. I would say that one would have to have the ball about three inches inside the left heel for the method to work. Are some of these golfers adjusting the ball position just for the driver and keeping it the same for all other clubs?

[BrianW]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

Here is my confusion. Look at some of the images that Avidgolfer posted and the address position of some of those who are using a driver. The only way that the ball is going to come close to being in the middle of the stance with a pitching wedge is if your two feet are almost touching. Ernie Els seems to have a more reasonable ball position that would lend itself to the method as does Annika. I would say that one would have to have the ball about three inches inside the left heel for the method to work. Are some of these golfers adjusting the ball position just for the driver and keeping it the same for all other clubs?

3 inches inside your lead heel would be a suitable distance, maybe a tad forward for the driver.

Here is a picture from Ben Hogans book "Five lessons" where he shows how to keep a static ball position and adjust the trail foot for each club.

[bill reed]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

hi jambalaya
i do think some pros do move the ball forward when playing with the driver off a tee but set up with the ball the same for every club other than i driver, that what i do also.
cheers
bill

[jambalaya]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

3 inches inside your lead heel would be a suitable distance, maybe a tad forward for the driver.

Here is a picture from Ben Hogans book "Five lessons" where he shows how to keep a static ball position and adjust the trail foot for each club.

Interesting. So do you close your stance as you drop the right foot back? Another thing that diagram seems to show is that he never gets the ball to the actual center of his stance. Even the wedge is forward of center. Ah, the confusing nuances of golf instruction.

[bill reed]

Re: ball postion in relation to left heel.

hi
if you look at the hogan diagram you will see his stance opens and if you look from where hes looking his belt buckle is past the ball, if his feet were inline and not open but the same distance apart the ball would be forward of his bely buckle. its the open stance that moved the ball back not just the right foot.
cheers
bill