the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

[golfinguy28]

post removed

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

This is NOT for people that just want to have fun playing getting slightly better here and there, so if you are one of those (and there is nothing wrong with that) don't read what is below

If you are very very athletic person, than you can continue to listen and read "tips from the pros" as they will probly help you.

But for anyone who is average joe, this is for you

Don't even attempt to swing like the pro's, you will never be able to, that is a fact.



The trouble with average joe is that he doesn't have enough time or athletic ability to emulate the pro's poor form. They need to learn the physics and kenesiology behid the swing if they want to hit well, because unfortunatley, pro's are very athletic, and if your not, you will never be able to hit as good as them using their form. If you want to hit as good as them or better, you have to learn a differnt (better) way to swing the club.

If I wanted to face bruce lee, that dude would kill me, even if I studied his motions/techniques. For one he is way stronger than me, and two, he has been doing it much longer, if I wanted to have a chance, I would need a gun, then I would win quite easily. Some athletc people out there might be able to match or surpass the pros, but the average joe will never get anywhere near there ability so they need to stop trying and find another way to "cheat" if you will. Sometimes the truth hurts, but people need to stop reading "tips from the pros" becuase 99.99% will never get that good. And by good, I mean as good as they are with the same technique, I absolutley believe that they could not only be as good but better if they learned a better technique. Hence the reason I quit listening to thier nonsense "tips" and found a different way.

Find out (through research) what makes speed and power and learn your own swing, that is our best/only chance at being any good.

If you have not read a copy of "Nail It" the 3 Skills book yet then I highly recommend it to you, the basic precepts are a breath of fresh air and quite liberating to the beginning and aspiring golfer.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Some years ago someone wrote a paper on sports in general, and why some folks are better at one type of sports game, and not another. A perfect current example in golf is going on right now with Haney and Barkley. One can play golf at a very high level, but can't play baskketball at the very high level enjoyed by his student. The other is just the opposite. The paper consisted of a bunch of scientific talk about a person's genetic timing barrier. Everyone is suppose to have this genetic barrier which is a level which they can't go beyond. A person can only develope their own genetic timing barrier to certain point unique to their own genetics. The genetic value they were born with. In golf, this might pretain to how well a person can develope their swing in terms of tempo, timing, and what ever other motions the golf swing might require. If true then Tiger has the genetic make up to be the great golfer he is. But could he win supper bowls if he decided at a young age to play football instead of golf? Could Tom Brady have been a championship golfer if he played golf his whole life instead of football? We'll never know. But we do know is that there is some sort of barrier that keeps many millions of golfers from becoming as proficient at the game of golf as Tiger Woods. What keeps those other PGA players from being as good as Tiger, and themselves winning tournaments on a more consistant basis? Is he getting better instruction than the rest of the PGA pros are? I think that when it comes to golf swing instruction, the instruction is only as good as to how well the student can develope it, based on their own physical attributes.

Just food for thought. GJS

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

No I haven't, I have no need to. But that is a great example of what I am talking about and might be good for a recreation "fun" golfer to read, it might help out a bit, but just know, if you are very athletic, your probly not going to get anywhere near scratch using this method unles you have a stellar short game.

It tells you to "pretend like your hitting a nail".... that isn't very specific, and doesn't exlpain which body parts are doing what and why and isn't the most efficient. But it might be very easy to learn and pick up on and improve your game slightly, but again, if you want to be as good as and or better than the pro's and you are not athletic enough to "beat them at their own game" then you need to learn how the swing works and use a more efficient method than they use.

That's a very closed minded attitude. How can you criticise something you have not looked at? Who said 3 Skills its only about pretending to hit nails, you know nothing about it. It has helped single digit handicap players on this site and I am one of them, not a fun golfer but someone who can play a real game.

You know what, just forget it and do your own thing! I lack the will to argue with you any more, I have been around too long.

[LowPost42]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Golfinguy, the Champions Tour are full of swings that contradict your idea of 'very athletic' as a requisite to scoring well.

[rotator]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

golfinguy,

I never aspired to be a wanna be tour level player. That is the pipe dream, such as many fathers have, who think their kids are going to be another Wayne Gretzky. Just one in several tens of thousands will actually make it to the professional league. Then, as GolfJunkySr says there are individuals who are born with the genetic and God given mind, body and talent to totally excel over the rest. Working your ass off will not be enough. That will take you only so far and it may be the minor leagues as a third line checker., which may be an acceptable platform and a good life, if the individual accepts "that is, what it is".

There are countless thousands of very good golfers, who have/had the pedigree, money and skills, but could not make it, like Jackie Nicklaus Jr, Ray Floyd Jr, who had a fair extended shots. Think of all the college golf factory graduates, who have the game, but not enough to break through.

What I have aspired to, is to have a successful career, and to live a decent life and have respect to others. Golf and sports are enjoyable and social outlets for most people, but that does not mean you can't be very good and compete at a near to the top level.

Ted

[gatorguy146]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

I kinda hear what you're saying dude, a lot of tips that you read on the internet or watch on TV aren't helpful. What I've found is that the little tips for things like chipping or pitch shots that I watch on the golf channel actually do help. There's nothing out there that will take you from a 10 handicap to scratch overnight. The truth is that the only way to get better is to play and practice as much as possible. My brother and I were both 20+ handicaps 2 years ago, we started working at a golf course and got to play and practice every day, I had my senior year of high school to make something happen playing golf, I meddled in 3 tournaments, 2 matches, and got 2nd team all conference and now got a scholorship to play college golf at a division 3 school near my house. My brother was on JV last year and couldn't break 45 for 9 holes, this year he has shot 36 and 39 in his two tryout days so far and is ranked number 1 on the high school golf team. Neither of us have ever had a true lesson just tips from people who know what they're talking about and playing a lot of golf. The truth is anyone who is determined enough can get really good at golf, no matter the athletic build, you just need the determination to get there.

[AussieGolfBoy]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

i don't really agree with golfingguy28.

the reason why player pro is better than player amature could be due to 1000000s of reasons.... but not their barrier.

tiger probably started playing at age 3.. amatures start playing around 18. 15yrs is a long time in the world of golf and starting at such a young age is when you learn the most.

here is a good example that contradicts your statement.... Ricky Ponting, one of the best cricket batsmen in the world has a golf handicap of 3, yet he plays cricket... the only thing that stopped him being a pro golfer was he chose to play cricket over golf..
another australian tennis player who was in the top 20 in the world is now a professional golfer.

all it takes, is time MONEY, training, a good coach and persistance and anyone can do anything... almost forgot.... motivation.

natural talent is only shown when all of the above happen.

[gatorguy146]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

If I had the time and opportunity to practice like Tiger does I gaurentee I could go pro next year. An average day for him consists of him waking up around 5am or 5:30am, in the gym from 6-7:30, breakfast till 9, practice range for 2 hours, chipping and putting for 30 mins, play 9 holes, lunch, practice range again, another 9 holes, 2 hours of short game, then back to the practice tee, then call it a night. If I had the time to do that every day I would in a heartbeat, unfortunately I have school, a job, and many other things in my life that don't allow it to happen. Anyone with natural golf ability could practice like that and play pro somewhere.

[kbp]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

There are people, right now, playing all over the world, busting their ass full time, practicing and competing, many with access to some of the top coaches that will never make the Tour. It ain’t that easy. I remember Greg J writing about his experiences on mini-Tours and the level of golf and the scoring that’s required just to survive at that level.

Tiger’s physical strength is over-rated as a contributor to his success. His main assets are his innate physical coordination and his mental strength and attitude. There are many, many players that work as hard as he does, and have for many years and do not even make it to the Tour. There are even more players that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth and have also been groomed from a very young age to be golf pros. Most are not on the Tour. Tiger works hard to make the most of his ability, not to create ability out of thin air.

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

some people have asked me to come back, so I will try stick around, but I won't be posting as much, I am getting pretty busy during the week. But brian has been here way longer than me, so if he wants me leave, I will leave.

Lets get this into perspective: I have never asked you to leave the site or suggested in any way that you have no place here.

I may not agree with some of the things you say or the way you say them, I will of course tell you if I think you are wrong but I will not make any kind of personal affront to you.

Please stay and join in debates, the forum needs different views to keep it interesting and alive. I would only ask you to try and see things from others viewpoints a little more and not dismiss them out of hand without consideration.

I hope this clears the air somewhat.

[AussieGolfBoy]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

well said BrianW.. i'm just giving my point of view.

golfinguy, i don't really understand what your saying. I don't think anyone would want to copy tigers stroke, everyone has their own restrictions in their physical build.. Take Daley for example. he can smack a ball further than anyone and he is dead set fat. as for his performance currently, maybe he is just in a bad patch of his career. He would be the last person in the world that swings anything like tiger, but he is still a professional and has every chance to win a tournament. if you play golf you will be aware that it only takes a good or bad day to win or lose a game.

Tiger in his coaching or lessons isn't showing you how to to hit the ball like him.... i think this is where you may be becoming unstuck..... the lessons are showing you the way he plays a specific shot but the basic swing fundamental rules stay the same... Don't copy him, but learn how to play that shot corrently and incorporate it into your game the way you play.

There was a recent post on here where someone showed a youtube video of repeteated swings. most of them were from the 50's i dare say, they were pro's, the swings looked god aweful, which only means you don't see swings like that these days.

the one thing i dislike in your comments is it comes across like your saying "you won't be a good as tiger, so don't even try", i think thats a big kick in the guts for anyone getting into this game.. for those who get into this (kids for example) they look upto tiger as their roll model... you don't want to be telling kids that you will never be that good, don't bother trying... you should be encouraging people and setting your goals high. if thats what you want go for it, but don't tell people "don't bother"

[rotator]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

golfingguy,

This is Miyahara's partial credentials. May we have yours, so it can be compared to that of the person you are slagging as not qualified.

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/speed_training.html

Regarding the slagging, that's all you seem to do. The proof of this is your postings, which are self-evident if one reads them.

You have a different outlook on golf, and that is fine, but you get upset and become argumentative (you say head strong), when people express their views and post links, which are traditional golf, as if they don't know what they are talking about. You sneer at Tiger and other "conventional" pros, and also look down at instructors who have been around teaching for 50 years.

This last post and your previous goodbye post are quite illuminating in themselves. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder about people you perceive as having a silver spoon or tons of time, without knowing or respecting that they just may not been born into money, and they worked extremely hard for their success, and/or all the time they have (or seem to have in your mind). You mentioned this in another of posts in an earlier thread.

I'm just telling you what it is.

Ted

[baglgolfer]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

If I may add my 2 cents for what its worth. I don't want to get into a shouting match with anybody.

Some people have IT and others need to work at IT. Yes, Tiger was 'pushed' into golf by his father as a little boy. No 2-3 year old 'wants' to play golf. However, Tiger has that god-given tallent that you can't teach. Yes he was taught young, had a great coach, was dedicated to his craft etc etc etc. You can copy his path to success to a tee (no pun intended), you can hire the best coach in the world, work 24-7 on your game, but if you don't got IT, you need to work with what you DO have. Find your strenghts and play your game.

Having said that, Tiger is a roll model and young kids getting into golf should strive to be like (emulate) Tiger. Remember Michael Jordan and the whole 'Be Like Mike' campaign. You think Lebron wanted to copy Jordan? I bet he did.

[rotator]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

If I may add my 2 cents for what its worth. I don't want to get into a shouting match with anybody.

Some people have IT and others need to work at IT. Yes, Tiger was 'pushed' into golf by his father as a little boy. No 2-3 year old 'wants' to play golf. However, Tiger has that god-given tallent that you can't teach. Yes he was taught young, had a great coach, was dedicated to his craft etc etc etc. You can copy his path to success to a tee (no pun intended), you can hire the best coach in the world, work 24-7 on your game, but if you don't got IT, you need to work with what you DO have. Find your strenghts and play your game.

Having said that, Tiger is a roll model and young kids getting into golf should strive to be like (emulate) Tiger. Remember Michael Jordan and the whole 'Be Like Mike' campaign. You think Lebron wanted to copy Jordan? I bet he did.

Hi baglgolfer,

I agree with you.

I have used the same words many times on this forum, and also when talking in everyday life about other personalities, sports related and outside of sports. There are humans born "every once in a lifetime", who have the God-given innate talent, ability, sense, or whatever that allows them to exceed in certain endeavours. Some will not be able to exercise the full breadth of that whatever, because of other factors, such as health, competitiveness, etc, If the outside factors are positive, such as individual determination, support of family and friends, finances even, they have a better shot.

Wayne Gretzky would be an example of those. Physically, he was not imposing and he was also not the fastest skater or the best stickhandler. The signs of his specialnesscame showed early in pee wee hockey, where he scored double digit goals and assists per game. Then in every level of developmental hockey, he was a runt and often played with much older and bigger opponents, yet he excelled

As you say, Michael Jordan and Lebron are the same in sports. Perhaps Pele was there, although there may be a dozen or so footballers who are his equal "born in this lifetime".

There are so many other people in nonsports related fields of life with the innate gift.

I heard an interview with Nicklaus the other day. He said it was easier for him to win, including all the majors, when he was playing, than it is now. He said that there was not as much competition on a week to week basis. (I suppose he was referring to the influx of the talented foreign players these days, as well). He said he knew each week it was the same old guys coming in, and he knew he had a good chance of handling them. That goes to show how good Tiger really is, mentally and phyically.


Ted