the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

as far as tiger goes, I'm sorry, I didn't make it seem as I was bashing him, he is obviusly a great player and will probly become a legend of the game. If you practiced the game as much as him and worked as hard that would bea good thing. I just used him as someone I believe makes my point that he doesn't have the best technique out there, but makes it work and work well due to his great athletic ability. And the fact that achieving a swing better than his is quite possible with some knowledge.





The guy has credentials, good for him. He also talks about getting people to go from hitting 200 yard slices to 250 yard draws. I am really not impresed at that. When a guy try's to prove a point by comparing joe suck to tiger woods, that is completly rediculous and proves nothing. If you want to prove a point you compare something eqaul to something equal and then point out the difference in in the detail, but you can't compare apples to a turd and say apples taste better. And when you use terminology incorectly to try to prove your terrible comparrison that makes it ever worse. So my credentials, are in my words, when you see I know what I am talking about from a simple physics/kenesiology standpoint. Ask Yggdrasil, he now knows how the arms work. Its not a technique or a trick or some drill, its just how they work. Its not any credentials I need to proove "my technique", becuase it is not really my technique, it is a simple basic understanding of how the arms work in the golf swing. And everyone would be better off learning how the different parts of the body works and then from there, they can make up their own technique on based of that foundation and have a great swing no matter how athletic they may or may not be. The rest of their golf game is a whole different story, but I am talking about the golf swing here.

The chip on my shoulder is not with people who are athletic, or with people that work hard, or with people born with a silver spoon. My "chip" is with people that don't know what they are talking about trying to teach people. They are giving them a false hope, saying that they can be as good as so and so if they give them a bunch of money and spend a lot of time practicing. All the time in the world practicing won't help if you are practicing a bad technique that someone is trying to teach becuase they have no clue what they are talking about. I don't like to bash peoples techniques just because......, it is more a bashing of their flawed, but claimed "great" technique due to their lack of knowledge when they try to explain why things happen that is non sense. That I will call them out on, ESPECIALLY when they try to make money/living off of the unfortunatle unlearned out there.

You will of course counter this post but please consider it a little:

You will know of Benjamin Franklin, he said:

“To be humble to superiors is duty, to equals courtesy, to inferiors nobleness.”


You may also have heard these words from Albert Einstein:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”


And Mr Isaac Newton:

“If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.”


Finally a quote from Max Ehrmann:

"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Indeed I will. 2+2=4 If you disagree with me, I am going to argue it, or if you are tellnig others that it is 5, or especially if you make money off of getting people to belive it is 5.

I don't claim no know everything about the swing, nor do I claim to have the best technique. But one thing I like about the swing is it involves physics and biology/kenesiology. There is an absolute wrong and right and there are basics fundtions involved. I am not saying you can't hit the ball well using wrong fundementals, in fact many pro's do just that, but if you want to swing the most efficient way, then there are certain "laws" you must "follow". ie Does one need a pivot to hit it far and accurate? nope But will adding a correct pivot increase your distance? absolutley. There is a reason baseball pitchers "srping" off the mound towards home plate and then throw, they don't just throw from a stand-still, nor do they step to 3rd and throw nor to 2nd ect. Sure I bet most pro's could throw the ball faster than most people at 70-80mph w/o a weight shift, but why, you have the ability of a weight shift, why not learn to use it? I would call not shfiting your weight in baseball an absolute wrong. Though you could still get it there fast, your goal (generally speaking) is to throw it as fast as you can, and to do that, you need a weight shift, if you don't have one, then you are wrong, you are not throwing as fast as you can. There are simply basic fundementals of the golf swing that have an absolute wrong or right. In golf we may not be trying to hit it as far as possible, but (most cases minus pitching ect.) but we are trying to create as much clubhead speed as we can while hitting it accuratly and consistantly. If you are not utilizing your weight shift, they you are wrong, you are not going to swing as fast as you can. And there are people that are way smarter than me with many more degrees that know a lot more than me that I got a lot of this info from. I am not claiming to reinvent the wheel here, but more learn how a wheel works, and that if you roll it, it will go fast, if you try to flip it end over end, it won't go as fast. If you want to flip it end over end and win a race, you better be pretty stong and in shape, you could probly even beat the out of shape weaklings, but you will always lose against someone allowing it to roll, no matter how weak or out of shape they are.

I don't know if I am making any sense or am able to get my point across in words (hence the frequent repeating and use of analogies) but there is certain things in the golf swing that are wrong. I don't think anyone would purposely teach someone something wrong (I hope not anyway) but if you don't know what you are talking about, then you can't know if you are right or wrong.

Which goes back to the point of the thread. Learn how and why things work and you will be way better off in finding a technique that woks for you that will end up being better than most pro techniques. If you have a better technique you will have a better swing, if you have a better swing, then you have a better chance at being good at the game

ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiippppppppppppppppp !!!!! My comments on humility seem to have gone straight over your head

You do confuse me though, now I am not sure where I said 2+2 = 5, and believe it or not I have never made a penny out of trying to convince anyone that it does. "biology/kenesiology" Jeepers where did you pick that up from, have you been reading stuff from that Mike Austin site?
Swinging a golf club is not so difficult and creating effective ball flight only concerns a few simple principles that all happen around a few inches as the club moves through the impact zone. All you have to figure out is a way to deliver the club in a manner that will create these conditions.

The other 80% of the game is something else though and no amount of Biology/Kenesiology (What ever that is) will give you the skills to master it, that only comes from learning what to do, practising it and playing the game. Oh! and I nearly forgot, enjoying the 'whole' experience of golf is the best bit.

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Its actually more of a "ffffffffffffffeeewww" noise, the ones that zzzzziiiipppp are farther off in the distance and generally don't get your attention as much. When someone says "I don't claim no know everything about the swing, nor do I claim to have the best technique." generally that is considered humble..... so your bullet might not have hit me in the face, but it was closer to my head than you may have thought. I proved my point with myself, I was talking about 3skills not knowing what I was talking about, and ended up making a fool of myself. If you don't know what you are talking about, you have no clue if you are right or wrong, and usually end up making a fool of yourself.

On the 2+2=5, that was not aimed towards you, but some people to claim that, and I must argue it. I generally like to argue (as you can see from my first statement) but kind of light-hearted, unless it is something absolutley wrong.

Kinesiology http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kinesiology


Main Entry:
ki·ne·si·ol·o·gy Pronunciation: kə-ˌnē-sē-ˈä-lə-jē, kī-, -zē- Function: noun Etymology: Greek kinēsis Date: 1894 : the study of the principles of mechanics and anatomy in relation to human movement


I don't have any degree in it, but it does have absolutes that are pretty basic and I have figured out. You see it as such a complex word it seems? When I use "complex" words, it is to try to minimize confusinon or how one could enterperet something. All it is, is how the body (biology) uses physics to move (kenisiology). Some people use the "whip" theory, and that is non sense, the body is not a tapered body of mass loosley tied together, it is muscles and levers with limited range of motion, that is where biology meets physics. You can use a trebuchet or a whip to prove certain physics, but not something biological, our bodies work differnt and that is where kenisiology comes from. I played with a friend of a friend once, and the guy was shooting scratch and had a great swing, he was a golf teacher, I later found out. I also found out that he had a degree in kenisiology. Big surprise that was..... not really.

you said "....will give you the skills to master it, that only comes from learning what to do..." and I agree, you just said you are an advocate of kinesiology., that learning what to do part. Learning what to do, you need to know what the body can do and why.

You say reading stuff from "that Mike Austing site" like that is a bad thing? No, I picked it up from learning things, you learn something new everyday, well that is something I learned one day. Now here is where my "humbleness" I guess you could call it goes out the window. No one ever knew more about the golf swing than that man. And when he says something as a fact, and anyone else refutes it, yes, I call them wrong. Not becuase I know what I am talking about all the time, but becuase someone who did know what they were talking about said so. So if that makes me "too proud", than so be it.

Just hearning the man talk would make you think he knew more aobut it than anyone. But then seeing him swing would prove even more that he did. Then actually having Ben Hogan awestruck and trying to take lessons from him, would prove it even more, then having a swing speed of over 160 would prove it even more, and being able to drive it strait and long averaging 308 yards on multiple long driving competitions at the age of 73 (when people are usually weak and not flexible ie. not very athletic) puts the nail in the coffin that he knew how the club could be swing the most efficiently and effectively consistaly and accuratley.

You don't give countless lectures in different countries unless you know what you are talking about or you could end up looking a fool. Mike was in Washington D.C. once and gave a lecture in front of 3000 some people and asked if there are any questions, 6 guys raised their hands and tryed to make him look a fool. He turned around, made them take off their shirts, hooked them up to an eletromyogram and then made those 6 guys look like fools instead.

So call me out all you want, I'm not that smart and can't defend myself very well. But don't even dare try to insinuate that Mike Austin (R.I.P) didn't know what he was talking about, becuase if he was still alive he could school you up and down 6 ways to sunday.

Cant recall calling him out? I was referring to the people that over complicate the golf swing on the MA site. Also, with due respect to Mike Austin (deceased) I cant remember him winning any majors, agreed he hit the ball a long way though. Take a look at Moe Norman, now that was a man who had studied hitting golf balls and showed people how to do it. He probably didn't know what Kinesiology was either.

[AussieGolfBoy]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

not sure who has too much time on their hands here. BrianW for reading the posts, or golfinguy for writing such a novel. LOL....

i think this thread should be closed... clearly someone who has their head stuck in the sand isn't going to see anything other than the way they want to see it.

i don't think it would matter what you said. this guy clearly can't take anyone's opinion other than his own.

i'm reading like the first sentence, scroll down to find i have a 2000 word essay to read, and am now just skipping over his ****.

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

not sure who has too much time on their hands here. BrianW for reading the posts, or golfinguy for writing such a novel. LOL....

i think this thread should be closed... clearly someone who has their head stuck in the sand isn't going to see anything other than the way they want to see it.

i don't think it would matter what you said. this guy clearly can't take anyone's opinion other than his own.

i'm reading like the first sentence, scroll down to find i have a 2000 word essay to read, and am now just skipping over his ****.

Yes, you are correct, I must have too much time on my hands I have been trying to get this discussion normalised but I can see that I am flogging a dead horse, I will gracefully pull out of this one now.

[bobsdoyle]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Hi members,
I read with much interest the thread and posts to "the best advice..... etc. " Some good stuff. Please allow me to throw in my two cents. I've struggled with this game of golf since I started at around age 26 (much too late in life to be any good). My handicap hovered around 18 t0 22. I was never a good athlete, having tried baseball, basketball, softball.... not football... didn't have the build. Always a good student, I diligently studied the 12 best golf instruction books ever written. I've written a free 8 page white paper on these 12 books should anyone be interested.

Some of my findings: For almost every tip or piece of advice offered in writing, I could find exactly the opposite advice, also in writing...... except for two aspects of the swing. Those two aspects are: 1. Keep your head behind the ball through impact 2. Maintain your spine angle.

With those two aspects in focus, I began to develop the muscle memory required to execute them in my swing. Finally, at age 65, I broke 80 for the first time in my life and have done it several times since. Today my handicap is 10.

My conclusions: My game has improved because I have developed the proper muscle memory over the past 8 years or so, by focusing on those two aspects mentioned above.

Tiger Woods was on national TV at age 2 and he developed that proper muscle memory at a very early age. Arnie started playing golf at age 7, as did Nicklaus. Hogan and Player at age 9, etc.; giving them all many years to develop the muscle memory for the above mentioned 2 aspects.

Today there are about 400 training aids out there, all suggesting an improvement in a particular aspect of the golf swing.... but none that focus on the 2 mentioned above. So I had to invent my own aid.

Main points: 1. there are as many swings out there as there are golfers (30 million or so in the USA alone) 2. Although their swings may differ slightly, all the top ranked pros do in fact keep their heads behind the ball through impact and they do maintain their spine angle throughout the swing.

Focus on those 2 aspects of your swing and forget all other tips. They can be confusing, contradictory and easily misinterpreted, thereby causing more harm than good. Enjoy your game.
Bob D

[baglgolfer]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Wow, this thread is making me sleepy. I think i will follow AussieGolfBoy's lead and respectfully bow out. There are people in this thread that like to see there written word published. Or maybe there is a 5000 word essay contest that I don't know about.

Either way, have fun guys.

[dagosa]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

There are lots of golfers out there, and you all know them as well, that could play so much better, if they took thoughts of "body parts" out of their game and let their god given abilities take over. A discussion of basic mechanics and what the golf tools are designed to do goes further than expecting a perfect swing to magically get the rewards you seek.

A good swing never insures good results...good contact does, regardless of how it's achieved. Working from the inside out is really what pros are all about, and we don't seem to get it. The contact produces those great swings specific to every individual professional. If you understand what you are trying to accomplish, you need not think about spine angle, or proper head position...consistent contact in baseball, tennis, ping pong etc. all require that.

I have never seen a carpenter that did not maintain his spine angle and head position while trying to drive a nail successfully. Let it work for others if that's what it takes.
Just don't be surprised when one beats the pants off a "body parts" man.
Truth be known, from tee to green, 4 to 5 different swings are used as determined by the task at hand.
I was a successful coach of hitting a baseball for years because I never taught players how to swing a bat. Being a Ted Williams fan....we drilled on hitting, inside FB, out side FB, breaking pitches low outside..etc. Every swing had it's own desired execution based upon the circumstances at hand. Every player's swing was a little different because every player was different.
Tiger Woods is great because he executes more different swings better than anyone...not one swing in particular better than anyone.

[bill reed]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

golfinguy,

I never aspired to be a wanna be tour level player. That is the pipe dream, such as many fathers have, who think their kids are going to be another Wayne Gretzky. Just one in several tens of thousands will actually make it to the professional league. Then, as GolfJunkySr says there are individuals who are born with the genetic and God given mind, body and talent to totally excel over the rest. Working your ass off will not be enough. That will take you only so far and it may be the minor leagues as a third line checker., which may be an acceptable platform and a good life, if the individual accepts "that is, what it is".

There are countless thousands of very good golfers, who have/had the pedigree, money and skills, but could not make it, like Jackie Nicklaus Jr, Ray Floyd Jr, who had a fair extended shots. Think of all the college golf factory graduates, who have the game, but not enough to break through.

What I have aspired to, is to have a successful career, and to live a decent life and have respect to others. Golf and sports are enjoyable and social outlets for most people, but that does not mean you can't be very good and compete at a near to the top level.

Ted

Hi Ted
i think a lot of the college golfers that get there tour ticket have also been taught how to maximize your earnings and know they can make a good living by just making the cuts and never being in the top 20 of a match.

Back when you had Trevino and Player they guys had to win so they could eat and have a night in a bed rather than sleeping in there cars for the rest of the week.
i think to many players can live comfortably playing golf and never winning and it a job and they only have to make the cut to have a good week.
the drive to be a pro golfer and one that wins is diffrent to many on tour players that see it as a way to make a good living.
to be a winer you have to put the effort in at the gym as well as the pratice round. its demanding of not only your time but the mental effort to want to win day after day.
most of us don't have the time to pratice or work out in the gym to the level of the golf pro but still think we can score well without putting in the work.
thats why there are so many books and DVD telling you how you can be better but in te end it all down to work put in.
you want to get better then put in the work on the fundamentals and then on your short game and putting.
the more you work on your game and play the more you see your game improve.
cheers
bill

[rotator]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Hi Bill,

I know you are a Trevino devotee, and so am I. He is an exceptional man, not only as a player but in the way he cares for other people.

I posted an article on another current thread about what it was for him before he made it.

The other story is about how he got his first win on the tour.

The previous year to winning, he had played in the U.S. Open, because he could qualify through qualifying events. He talks about showing up at the event location, and finding a flea bag motel and eating at fast foods diners, practicing putting in the room in the evenings to kill time. The other established players are likely staying at the top hotels and eating at the best steak houses. He finished 5th.

The following year, he wins.

Gotta love it.

Ted

[golfinguy28]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Whoever said that about wasting time was correct, its just too difficult to try to explain in words what I mean, you guys are obviously not getting the point of what I am trying to say (weather it is mine or your fault is not known or important).

So again, I say goodbye and good luck.


And if anyone knows the Admin, ask that I may please be deleted and that they delete all my post.

[BrianW]

Re: the best advice I can give anyone who wants to be good

Whoever said that about wasting time was correct, its just too difficult to try to explain in words what I mean, you guys are obviously not getting the point of what I am trying to say (weather it is mine or your fault is not known or important).

So again, I say goodbye and good luck.


And if anyone knows the Admin, ask that I may please be deleted and that they delete all my post.

Don't you think you are being immature? We all post things that someone else disagrees with or doesn't understand but we get over it.