One Plane vs Two Plane swing

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Do you think Moe ever in his life thought about one vs.two plane?I don't think so.The reason Moe was so great was digging the answers out of the dirt.Practice!!!

Of course he thought about swinging on a single plane or axis, he devoted millions of practice shots perfecting it. He worked out that if he set his arms on plane at address then swung parallel to that he could create what he called "The Feeling of Greatness". It does not matter a hoot whether he called it a one or two plane swing though.

[keiko]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Of course he thought about swinging on a single plane or axis, he devoted millions of practice shots perfecting it. He worked out that if he set his arms on plane at address then swung parallel to that he could create what he called "The Feeling of Greatness". It does not matter a hoot whether he called it a one or two plane swing though.

So true, it does not matter and never did to anyone until Hardy and the wannabees decided they could make a buck if they got folks to think it was something new.
I don't want to be the one to sound adversarial here but facts are facts.
For amateurs to think that they can adopt a one or two plane swing and get to a high level of play is ludicrous, it only serves to ignore the fundamentals which WILL get one to a high level of play.
If one gets well grounded in the fundamentals and has a repeating swing that produces good play, then it may be time to worry about what friggin plane they are on but at that point they won't care.

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

So true, it does not matter and never did to anyone until Hardy and the wannabees decided they could make a buck if they got folks to think it was something new.
I don't want to be the one to sound adversarial here but facts are facts.
For amateurs to think that they can adopt a one or two plane swing and get to a high level of play is ludicrous, it only serves to ignore the fundamentals which WILL get one to a high level of play.
If one gets well grounded in the fundamentals and has a repeating swing that produces good play, then it may be time to worry about what friggin plane they are on but at that point they won't care.

I dont agree with your view but see little mileage in reiterating my opinion. Time to leave it at that.

[The Hud]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I watched Jim Hardy's video about The Plane Truth and decided I wanted to be a one planer, so I've been working on that for a couple weeks. Actually, when I get it right it seems to work great, especially for my irons. I experimented briefly with Jim hardy's description of two plane and that just seems much less predictable to me. I dunno. Now on the driver, I'm having a really hard time getting good shots with one plane.

And I am sure I have lost some distance. I can't get the shaft back to parallel in a true one plane swing unless I over-turn my hips too far. When I do more of a two plane swing, I hit the ball a lot further, but just seems less predictable and repeatable to me. I dunno.

What are your thoughts on comparing these two approaches?

I find that some golf pros do not tell you if they are teaching one or two plain swings, you could end up wit a one plain backswing and a two plain downswing if you are not careful.

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I have often wondered if someone were to ask the top 125 PGA touring pros, how many would actually know which type of "plane" swing they have. GJS

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I have often wondered if someone were to ask the top 125 PGA touring pros, how many would actually know which type of "plane" swing they have. GJS

I would think most would know, they live and die the game.

[keiko]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

They would tell you it doesn't matter, ie. irrevelant.

[BrianW]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

They would tell you it doesn't matter, ie. irrevelant.

I think the way they make their swings matters very much to them, it costs them big bucks, requires lots of practice and is the tool of their trade.

[LowPost42]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I have often wondered if someone were to ask the top 125 PGA touring pros, how many would actually know which type of "plane" swing they have. GJS

Good Q. I remember shortly after Hardy's book came out, it was noted that most Tour professionals have a 'hybrid' swing - having some elements of each swing.


As for them knowing, I'd say the guys who know their plane also likely know the specs on their gear. So, a guy like Goosen would qualify, a guy like Bruce Lietze would have no idea. Anthony Kim is likely clueless as well (after watching him and Tiger do their spot on the Golf Channel).

[rotator]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I've seen many pro players being interviewed and asked about their swings and how they work on fixing their specific problems. There were many Golf Channel Live and Academy shows, as well as Playing Lessons from the Pros, and the like, in which the featured player and his coach would be on the show together. It was surprising that so many blurted out I don't know, ask the coach how I do it. I recall Tommy Tolls (sp?), who showed promise as a young tour player, marvellous swing and early success. Like so many, he grew up playing as a kid and was a natural. When he started to have problems, he had no idea how to fix it. He hung around trying to find a way out for a long time, and I used to see his name come up from time to time on the lesser tours. I don't know what he's doing now. There were so many like him. I suspect Boo Weekly may be one. Another example may be Seve, who learned his swing by playing, and could not find a sound swing that could fix him, notwithstanding resorting to coaches such as Harmon.

The clinic by Tiger and Kim which LowPost 42 referred to was a good illustration. Tiger got a kick as Kim had to look at the bottom of his clubhead to see what loft he was using. In the same vein, Tiger explained details of how he does different shots, whereas Kim basically said I don't know, I just think about playing a fade and I do it. He said he learned by playing, and is a feel player.

That is not to say, many of the players do know their swings and equipment.

Ted

[bill reed]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

hi
i think like Lowpost and Ted said, there is a split between the pros! the guys that know there swing inside out and how it works and use pepole like Leadbetter and Harmon to tweek there swing from time to time.
but there are other's that have gone through golf school being coached and having there swing built up at school and don't really understand every part of the swing knowing there coach will be there to keep there swing working. and when asked about there swing they can't tell you without there coach there to help.
i think if you were to go back 30 years then most pros knew there swing but i dont think that is the case now.
cheers
Bill

[rotator]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Hi Bill,

One of the old time golfers, we both have a high regard for, Lee Trevino, knows his swing very well, as he built it hitting a lot of balls. It is a unique swing. He is very knowledgeable in the nuances of the short game and putting. He is a student of the game and knows what makes it tick. He can comment on and dissect other players' games and swings.

It seems to me many of the older golfers have created their own unique swings. That makes sense, as many of them did not have instruction in the "modern" school of golf swing. Even those who went to college had instruction from varied (teaching-wise) coaches, such as Tom Kite and Ben Crenshaw and their relationship with Harvey Pennick, and the many successful pro golfers who had Dave Williams at the University of Houston. I don't believe those old time coaches changed their student's swings, but worked on fundamentals, so you have the likes of Leitzke and Couples.

Ted

[bill reed]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

Hi Bill,

One of the old time golfers, we both have a high regard for, Lee Trevino, knows his swing very well, as he built it hitting a lot of balls. It is a unique swing. He is very knowledgeable in the nuances of the short game and putting. He is a student of the game and knows what makes it tick. He can comment on and dissect other players' games and swings.

It seems to me many of the older golfers have created their own unique swings. That makes sense, as many of them did not have instruction in the "modern" school of golf swing. Even those who went to college had instruction from varied (teaching-wise) coaches, such as Tom Kite and Ben Crenshaw and their relationship with Harvey Pennick, and the many successful pro golfers who had Dave Williams at the University of Houston. I don't believe those old time coaches changed their student's swings, but worked on fundamentals, so you have the likes of Leitzke and Couples.

Ted

Hi Ted
i think you are so right in what you say. i do agree that a lot of player back then did not so much change there swing as tweek it a little here and there.
where nowadays so many players look to have the same swing after going through golf school.
you spoke about Ben Crenshaw and i remember watching him and Jack playing the old course in Musselburgh with hickory shafted clubs back in the 70s and Ben knew more about the history of musselburgh and it many open winners and club makers form the start of the century and going back to the 1800. he really knew his golf history and Big Jack knew a lot too and that suprised a lot of people there.
cheers
Bill

[rogue]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

I agree with rotator lowpost and (regrettably) keiko

my own thoughts and experiences are that there are two types of players, ones who know (or think they know) the ins and outs of their swings, and ones that dont have a clue and dont care to know, they just play. The clinic with tiger and kim was a great example of the different players. but even tiger who is a little more analytical than most will go to very simple things on the course.

Tiger won with butch - 2 plane, and with Haney 1 plane.

Hardy is out to make a buck and sets up an impossible ideal to reach - you MUST do this, this and this. if you mix them you will not be successful. Well guess what, no matter what swing you have you will still hit bad shots, WE ARE HUMAN. and most tour players are hybrid swingers anyway.

Unfortunately we determine technique by what is successful at the moment. If moe Norman happened to hit balls with a tee up his bum a pro would come out with a book on why a tee up your bum makes you hit it straighter - using 'real science' to back it up. This type of thinking is not scientific however.

An example of this is we are forever using Tigers swing as a model of perfection as he is so damn good. Although i love the aestethics of his swing, WHY WOULD WE USE HIS? he only hits about 50% of the fairways or less. Tiger hs qualities that are unquantifiable - skill, feel, ability to control his emotions, desire, skill, oh and did i mention skill? back this up with a killer short game - he kills everyone on 100 yards and in) and you have a player who can win with a 1 plane, 2 plane or tee up his bum swing.

Stop searching for the correct technique cos it aint gonna happen - even if you did get your swing where you wanted it (there has never been a player who has done this, what makes you think you will be the first) the model will probably have changed by then, and you will still be hitting bad shots and shooting the same scores

[bill reed]

Re: One Plane vs Two Plane swing

hi
i think rogue makes a good point about Tiger and how he misses the fairway a lot but his talent lets him play from the rough a bit like Seve back in the 70s and 80s.
Tiger swing does not put him on the fairway most of the time like a lot of other top pros so does that make him have the best swing????
when you look at Tom Kite he was a good pro but not winning! then he changed to the Pelz 4 wedge system and started winning and was player of the year that year and suddenly more pros started carring 3 and 4 wedges and there games got better as they dropped less shots but did not change there swing only there wedges and they started getting in the money.
Kite did not change his swing only the clubs in his bag.
i think a lot of it is not what swing you have! (one or two plane) but more what you do with it and how you manage that swing round the course and play to what you have on that day.
Cheers
Bill