Spine angle

[Hannu]

Re: Spine angle

But now, while maintaining my ninety degree turn, I assume my normal stance by bending my knees and bending my torso from the hips. When I bend my torso over, my head MUST move to the right!

But yes, I watch the backswings of the pros and most these days seem to keep their heads still.

I don't have an answer - sorry, but maybe we can find it. I've done some dumbbell exercises keeping my head still. I take my golf posture so that my head leans to frame of a door. It's easy to keep head still, if you do a 9 o'clock backswing, but after that...

Pivot axes changes from center to right hip and it would be natural to let your weight travels to your right leg and let your head move with it.

What I do not understand is - if this is true why does your spine angle turn to right and not to left. (Left would mean reverse weight shift or "stack and tilt".)

This is why I experiment with a broom - to see the spine angle more clear and also the rotation... I'll shoot a video when I get some one to start the recording.

[Ringer]

Re: Spine angle

I straighten my spine with a simple setup thought.

"Butt out, chest out". I stick my rear end out and I stick my chest out and that immediately gets me straight.

Also by doing this it sets my shoulders back a bit. This gives me clearance under my chin to turn my shoulders under.

One of the main culprits why the left shoulder gets high and into the chin is an early rotation of the upper left arm. For most people as they rotate their upper arm they also lift it up away from their ribcage.

Lastly, in order for the right shoulder to make a good approach more DOWNward toward the golf ball in the early stages of the forward-swing, you need to have some tilt away from the target. That doesn't mean keeping your weight on the right leg, in fact shifting your weight forward HELPS to keep the lean away from the target. The key is shifting your weight with your legs first and keeping your upper body back. This is why "Shift your weight, but keep your head back" has been such a tried and true swing thought for many people.

[kbp]

Re: Spine angle

Yes, I agree that the video shows what looks like a rather awkward swing.

Paul Wilson has an article on his site entitled Never Keep Your Head Still in the Backswing.

Recently, when I was struggling on the range, I decided on impulse to try moving my head back in the backswing and then keeping it there on the downswing. In fact, I didn't just move my head, I more or less moved my whole body on to my right anchored leg. To my astonishment, I began hitting balls more cleanly that I have for a long time. I have played two games since during which I made a point of moving my head back and each time it paid dividends.

However, for some reason I feel that I shall be better off in the longer run if I do not get into the habit of moving my head back. Somehow, I would prefer to swing while keeping my head in one place, but things have gone haywire over the last year or so.

I am suspecting that I am currently trapped in between a one plane swing and a two plane swing, or between a swing swing and a hitting swing, and that I shall continue to struggle until I settle into one or the other.

What I don't understand is how it is possible that the head can remain in one place on the backswing. Here's what makes me think that it is impossible.

I stand perfectly erect and then turn my shoulders ninety degrees to the right as in a backswing. My head stays easily in the same place.

But now, while maintaining my ninety degree turn, I assume my normal stance by bending my knees and bending my torso from the hips. When I bend my torso over, my head MUST move to the right!

But yes, I watch the backswings of the pros and most these days seem to keep their heads still.

When you find your answer, I'll be pleased if I find it too

First, consider the possibility that you may have the ball too far back in your stance so shifting to the right on the backswing is just setting you properly behind the ball. Try moving the ball forward so you don’t have to sway.on the backswing.

Beyond that, if you want to minimize "swaying" while still having some mobility, try keeping the top of the spine (the base of the neck) in one place rather than your head, per se. On the backswing, shift the hips to the right and then rotate around an axis that goes from the top of the spine through the right foot. Let the left knee be pulled in and over and let the left heel lift/roll a bit. On the through swing, shift the hips back to the left and then rotate around an axis that goes from the top of the spine through your left foot. Plant the left foot and let the right knee be pulled in and over and let the right heel lift/roll. The hands left of the zipper at impact, ball position based on the shaft lean of the club in hand. (Typically, the ball needs to be played further up with this type of swing).

The two axis make an A-frame with the top of the spine as the steady top. The hips swing to the back leg and then to the front leg like a pendulum hanging from the top of you’re A-frame. Swing the weight (hips) to back axis and rotate around it to the top. Swing the weight (hips) back to the front axis and rotate around it through the ball.

I define a sway as moving the upper body laterally, back and forth, like a tree swaying in the breeze. More movement at the top than in the middle. If you fix the top of your tree, your hips are free to move back and forth within you’re a-frame. You are anchored at the top and the bottom, shifting in the middle.

This is ONE WAY to swing.

[keiko]

Re: Spine angle

Traditional teachers say back relatively straight-where you can place the handle of a club down your back from the back of your neck while bending at the waist at address- and butt out. Jimmy Ballard teaches butt tucked under. There are more good players who keep their butt out but there are some pro's who tuck it under. You have to pick what's right for you.
As to the spine angle, it is a rotational angle; meaning, that while keeping the same spine angle, one is able to rotate 90 degrees around the fixed spine or center.
Suffice it to say, keeping one's spine angle the same throughout the swing also keeps the head from moving up or down since it is attached to the top of the spine and a stationery spine angle with rotating upper body keeps the club on a stable plane. Moving one's head up or down changes the spine angle. I like to think of it as an upside down triangle.
Moving one's head back and forth-just a little-has no appreciable effect on the spine angle because that is rotational movement.

[kbp]

Re: Spine angle

Posture should match the swing and vice versa.

Jimmy Ballard teaches an upright swing with an upright posture. The old "sit down on a bar stool" (break the knees and then set the spine angle) with a so-called "two-plane" action. Arms lifting and in front. A more rotational swing should have the butt out, a more bent over spine angle (set the spine angle and THEN break the knees) and a so-called "one-plane" action. Arms moving back around the body.

A "straight spine" should still have its natural curvatures, not flattened out nor exaggerated. This is why we bend at the hip sockets, near the base of the spine, not in the mid-section further up the length of the spine.

From a down-the-line view the spine angle to the ground should ideally remain constant. From a face-on view the spine angle can be allowed to change, depending on the action....the full "pendulum" action I previously described or with less shift by just adding more tilt away from the target on the downswing. You could also keep the face-on view spine angle fairly constant and rotate both back and through around the same (front) axis.