One-plane or two-plane

[mr3856a]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

My big struggle right now with the 1PS is abolishing my desire to hit with my arms (remnant from 2PS). Any time I simply put my left arm across my chest and turn my shoulders hard (and conciously de-energize my arms) I get a lovely ball flight with a nice little draw.

I'm curious about what you say here. I am a natural 1PS, which I didn't know until I saw myself on video this summer. Early in the summer, after some decent rounds, I went to a weaker grip, which I have subsequently learned was dead wrong. Now that I've gone back to a very strong (left-hand) grip, I'm back on track.

I've got to try what it is you are saying here. I start down with the idea of driving the butt end of the club toward the ground/ball (or another way to put it would be to keep my wrists cocked as long as possible).

Anyway, in the end, I think the 2PS is a great way to get crossed-up and get out of whack. I don't know why you would ever not try for a 1 plane swing.

[acepepper]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Here is a pretty definitive article from Golf Digest on the subject:

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ingplane1.html

Mike

Great link mr3856a. That really does explain things pretty well.

[acepepper]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Hi Ace,

Easiest Q first: Yes, the 1PS is very much like a baseball swing. Very much.

Yes, the takeaway comes inside right away (ideally). Watching video on golfdigest.com of Ernie Els shows a hands-initiated takeaway. Ernie has his wrists set by the time his left upper arm is parallel with the ground.

The nature of the 1PS takes the club inside right away. You could try to keep it straight, but to what end? Get that lead arm on your chest, and leave it there until centrifugal force picks it off.

About the only way to come over the top with the 1PS is to increase your spine angle (ie get closer to the ground) or shift your weight out over your toes - both moves will now put your whole swing across the line, allowing you to come over the top.

My big struggle right now with the 1PS is abolishing my desire to hit with my arms (remnant from 2PS). Any time I simply put my left arm across my chest and turn my shoulders hard (and conciously de-energize my arms) I get a lovely ball flight with a nice little draw.

Thanks LowPost, this is all new to me and I think explains why my swing has gone to pot over the last six months. When I started playing about two years ago, I was instinctively, (I think), a 1 plane swinger. I could hit the ball straight and a fair distance. Then I started to make changes to my swing using advice that was tailored for a 2PS. I've now got the two swings totally mixed up. At least now I know the difference between the two, I can get started on working things out.

[gord962]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I would like for once to read an unbiased article comparing the two swing paths. In any of the 1PS articles comparing the two planes, they are showing a 2PS golfer with glaring mistakes, then blaming those mistakes on the fact he has a 2PS. Looking at the article Mike pasted a link to, the 2PS golfer has over rotated his hips and his club has come over the top. Of course the 1PS will look better! Peter Jacobson is the worst person in comparing the two swing planes - ignore anything Big Jake to say regarding the 2PS.

I use the 2PS and support the 2PS teachings that swing because it works for me. For those that have more success with the 1PS, I'm sure that they support the 1PS teachings. But rarely do you hear 1PS supporting the 2PS or vise versa. I don't really think you can say one is better technique than the other, just that one technique may be more suited to certain people better than the other.

As for the pros, they are talented enough (and have ample time to practice and take lessons) to adjust to either swing plane. You don't see Tiger or Vijay claiming that their swing plane is responsible for winning any given week.

[acepepper]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I would like for once to read an unbiased article comparing the two swing paths. In any of the 1PS articles comparing the two planes, they are showing a 2PS golfer with glaring mistakes, then blaming those mistakes on the fact he has a 2PS. Looking at the article Mike pasted a link to, the 2PS golfer has over rotated his hips and his club has come over the top. Of course the 1PS will look better! Peter Jacobson is the worst person in comparing the two swing planes - ignore anything Big Jake to say regarding the 2PS.

I use the 2PS and support the 2PS teachings that swing because it works for me. For those that have more success with the 1PS, I'm sure that they support the 1PS teachings. But rarely do you hear 1PS supporting the 2PS or vise versa. I don't really think you can say one is better technique than the other, just that one technique may be more suited to certain people better than the other.

As for the pros, they are talented enough (and have ample time to practice and take lessons) to adjust to either swing plane. You don't see Tiger or Vijay claiming that their swing plane is responsible for winning any given week.

I've just ordered the Jim Hardy book, The Plane Truth for Golfers
and as far as I can see from that, he doesn't advocate one swing or the other, but gives you the fundamentals of both, so that you can decide which suits you best.

[gord962]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I'll have to give it a read. I was more directing my comments to the one sided articles in the plethora of golf magazines that saturate the market guaranteeing quick fixes on slices and how to add 40 yards to your drive instantly.... very few useful tips in the magazines - it's the same info over and over, just with different pictures.

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Yes Gord, theres a ton of one-sided articles out there, but Hardy's book is fairly unbiased. I say fairly, as it's obviously geared towards the 1PS.

But Hardy doesn't rip apart the 2PS, either. Instead, he contrasts and compares them, and suggests you make up your own mind.

[acepepper]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I was more directing my comments to the one sided articles in the plethora of golf magazines that saturate the market guaranteeing quick fixes on slices and how to add 40 yards to your drive instantly.... very few useful tips in the magazines - it's the same info over and over, just with different pictures.

Amen to that.

[ph_kingston]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Great response guys, thanks!

Following the discussion and reading some of the links, it's pretty clear to me that my natural swing is one-plane; I'm delighted that's cleared up as I think it was causing me some confusion.

I'd been experimenting a little with spine tilt for the last couple of weeks and it wasn't working for me. I've reverted to a much more "natural" stance and ensuring I keep my legs strong and my spine straight but angled and I'm hitting the ball much better again. It goes to reinforce the information posted in this thread.

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Good to hear, PH.

Check out www.oneplanegolfswing.com for more info (you can order Chuck's DVD, if you like), and The Plane Truth for Golfers by Jim Hardy is a good buy.

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

J.H. is a joke and is being laughed at by professionals

Really? What for? I don't see Tiger Woods laughing - ok, well, I do, all the way to the bank. Hank Haney was the pupil of, you guessed it, JH.

While I will admit there are some things I don't readily agree with (grip, for starters), JH certainly gave us a definite good look at a swing that works better for some golfers (including me).

[mr3856a]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

I think one thing this discussion about one and 2 plane golf swings has made absolutely clear for me is, you cannot go about working on your swing constructively without knowing which one you are.

And about JH/Hank Haney, etc. - I think ol' Hank's right about one thing: Why would you want to bother re-routing the club at all when you can take it back and through on one plane?

Simpler.

[LowPost42]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

Thanks for the clarification, cMays.

Someone had to lay claim to the 'discovery' - I'm surprised Leadbetter hadn't done it sooner.

But, I'll add that while I've added some distance (about 1 club), my accuracy is much more improved.

Where I have trouble is trying to figure out how to get another club out of this swing (and I think the answer lies in the late release).

[Simon Woo]

Re: One-plane or two-plane

My question is on impact position. I guess for one-plane it's quite obvious, the club looks just like it was at address. How about the two-plane swing? Is it supposed to be as in the picture? I believe I am doing the two-plane swing, but back at impact position my club looks just like it was at address...