Outside in swing path

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

I worked hard for nearly 3 months on the L to L drill to teach my body not to come from over the top and it really worked for me

If you reason there are 2 key positions in this drill. Halfway back and halfway through. Halfway back the wrists should be fully set and the butt of the club pointing at the ball. You should be feeling the club working to the inside and the right elbow folding. The SwingSetter is a great aid for teaching this position (see Gregs other thread)

Look at Appleby in the 3rd Frame. Perfect

http://content-golf.live.advance.net...lebypanel3.jpg

A lot of people here are either too flat, too steep or too long by this point

Now from here you need to try and swing through so the club is extended down the target line halfway through and the toe of the club is pointing to the sky (shake hands with the target). If it points left you are coming OTT and will be pulling/slicing, if right you will be pushing/blocking or hooking if you have quick hands

Again look at Appleby in the 3rd frame

http://content-golf.live.advance.net...lebypanel2.jpg

Now I dont care how you 'feel' you get the club to this point since it will be different for everyone. You may turn your hips, turn your chest, push down on your left heel or swing with your upper arms, but the key thing is to make this 'throwing' movement in slow motion to feel yourself come at the ball slightly from the inside (from that halfway back position) and then extend down the target at impact so the club is pointing right down the line and your arms feel really extended. If you do this repeatedly and learn to feel this motion correctly you can then start to speed it up and then do it will a ball on a tee

IMHO if you cant hit 10 out of 10 7 irons at least 140 yards and straight with this drill then you arent going to consistently improve any time soon. You'll be amazed how far the ball will actually go with such a short swing if youre doing it right. This is the business end of the swing. Many top players will look different as they go further back in the backswing or how they follow through but nearly all look the same through impact

This one drill has helped me more than any other and its the first one I always use when I practice

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

I used to work on a similar drill, the V to V drill. But now I'm wondering, as with the L to L drill, does it encourage more of a hit than a swing? At this point, a V to V swing, a L to L swing and a half swing all give me about the same distance (perhaps less 5yds) as my full iron swing :O

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Outside in swing path

In addition to has already been posted, you might want to look at your hands, and their position at the top. If you are right handed, you might want to make sure your right hand (wrist) is under the shaft. By that I mean bent backwards. Sometimes for right handers if the right hand is not under the shaft at the top, the right hand will over power the the weaker left hand at the start of the down swing, which can throw the club head outside the line of the swing. It can also cause the club face to be open at the top. With the right hand (wrist) under the shaft, the line formed by the back of the left hand, and it's wrist will be pretty straight.

I posted sometimes, because some players will not have the right hand (wrist) under the shaft, but can manipulate their swing to correct this on the way down. GJS

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

I used to work on a similar drill, the V to V drill. But now I'm wondering, as with the L to L drill, does it encourage more of a hit than a swing?

Only if you go at it with your hands Simon. If you work on turning through the ball with your body (and you can feel this either with hips, chest or even shoulders) with very soft wrists and hands you will be swinging though the ball. If youve been a flipper/swatter and tried to release by flicking your wrists and rotating forearms this is going to feel strange. You will feel very open at impact. However ven in an L-L drill you should be creating lag provided you keep those arms and hands loose and soft. The softer the better

http://www.golfdigest.com/search/ind...304akins2.html

This is all about learning not to swat by turning the body rather than hitting with the hands and staying loose. Once you get this you'll see the ball really flying off the clubface and it will feel effortless. Do it in slow motion first and then start to build up speed and then add a ball

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Hi pnearn can you elaborate what he means when he says "Look how extended my arms are after impact and how the club has released, yet my arms are still in front of my chest. No chicken wing here." Thanks!

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

I'll try. Without a club just stand up and take a half swing with just your arms (or a ruler if youre at work like I am!) feeling as if you 'pushing' or hitting with the right hand. See what that does to the left elbow through impact (chicken wing). People then counter this by flipping the right hand over the left which relies wholly on timing and is a weak movement because of the tension in your hands it requires

Now do the same but keep those arms soft and just turn your chest(upper sternum) or belly button. See how the triangle turns through and extends your arms down the target line? See how the forearms and hands naturally rotate. See how your hips feel more open at impact yet youre arms are fully extended. This is because you are using your torso to power the arms and literally whip them through. Your arm/wrist/hand unit (triangle) will be the last thing to move in this motion rather than the first if you were hitting/pushing with the right hand.

Does this answer the question mate?

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Simon

To expand on the backswing aspect of this have a look at this article. It was the feeling of using my chest to lead the turn back and through that really helped me to learn to stop swatting

http://www.golfswingcontrol.com/backswingflaw.html

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Thanks pnearn for the link. It seems to be quite a good site and I'm eager to read all the contents in there. Regarding this shoulder turn, I have a bit of problem with that. If I try to do the turn with my arms folded across my chest, I think I do too much of a hip turn. On the other hand, the other day I saw a golfer who has this backswing where his hands go way behind his body (I think the common way to describe this is to say that his hands are not in front of his body, right?). In any case, I think he really got a good backswing coil (more from the arms than the body perhaps?) and the thing is, he can really hit the ball far! I am also not sure if this is the basis of a one-plane swing, where the hands are really pulled / wrapped around the body?

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Simon

A few things. Dont get over hung up on retricting hip turn. The hips should move in the backswing to coil the body. The key is to make sure you retain the angle in your right knee so that as you swing back the hips turn into this braced right side and can go no further.

This is why you should think of it as a back 'swing'. If you make a fluent turning motion (i.e. not too slow) the inertia of your turning upper body keeps going even when the lower body (hips) cant turn any further and indeed start to recoil. By forcibly trying to not let the hips turn with this motion, well I just cant see how you could do that myself ?

As for the behind the body bit be careful about perception. The hands should go behind the body, as long as the club head remains in front of the hands. You may have gotten used to a wide. steep plane in an attempt to hit the ball further. The guy who you think is whipping it behind him may well be on the perfect plane

Next time at the range try this and see if it works for you. When you take the club away really try and zip it behind you. By that I mean try and imagine a line drawn at 45 degrees from the ball past your right foot and swing it along that line (i.e. not in a straight line back). As you do this try and feel your wrists setting early (they should do anyway because of the more rotatational angle) so that by halfway back the club head is past vertical.

To get there dont use your hands as you will roll it inside. Try and use you upper body but feel like you are turning it away immediately. To you this may now feel way inside but you should immediately notice the more circular motion. Then try and hit some balls and see the difference

This is the premise of the swingsetter. Getting the wrists set early and the club working inside. Indeed heres some of the bumph

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ins.../early2_sm.jpg

It is crucial to get the top magnetic ball snapping before you reach halfway back where your left arm is parallel to the ground, this gives you maximum wrist cock and leverage.
Start from address and swing back halfway making sure the plane pointer is pointing at or slightly inside the target line ( I like golfers to have a ball in front of them to focus on) if the top magnetic ball doesn't snap look to do the following:
Place the top magnetic ball on the easiest tension level, level 1.
Use your stomach (belly button) to help advance the SwingSetter™ start back not just your hand this provides more momentum.
Feel the start of the back swing motion is a little quicker( many golfers swing everything away to slowly thus not allowing the ball to snap)

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Sorry pnearn, will need to trouble you to elaborate a bit more on some things you've said as I'm trying to understand them..

Dont get over hung up on retricting hip turn. The hips should move in the backswing to coil the body.

So can I take it that if I maintain my right knee flex and spine angle, the chances of me overdoing my hip turn is very slim?

As for the behind the body bit be careful about perception. The hands should go behind the body, as long as the club head remains in front of the hands.

Don't quite get what it means that the club head remains in front of the hands...

imagine a line drawn at 45 degrees from the ball past your right foot and swing it along that line (i.e. not in a straight line back). As you do this try and feel your wrists setting early (they should do anyway because of the more rotatational angle) so that by halfway back the club head is past vertical.

Sorry I can't quite visualize the line you are talking about, is it on the floor? And do you mean halfway back (as in arms horizontal), the shaft should be past vertical (meaning wrists are already well cupped)?

Thanks!

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

So can I take it that if I maintain my right knee flex and spine angle, the chances of me overdoing my hip turn is very slim?

Thats exactly it Simon. Dont try and forcibly hold the hips face frontal or anything. The hips should turn 45 degrees and this should happen early in the backswing as the core torso rotates. Think only about right knee and spine angle as you turn for a while and learn to feel what that feels like and how much more coil you get (your backswing will be shorter than you are used to for a start)

Don't quite get what it means that the club head remains in front of the hands...

If you maintain the triangle in your hands and just push it back either with the left hand or by a turn of the chest and stop just after the takeaway just before the wrists start to hinge - see how the club head doesnt get behind the hands. Now whip the clubhead around yourself with your hands and stop at the same point. See how the club head is poitning behind you and is now inside your hands. (You may have also rolled the wrists doing this). Note is almost as bad to take the club back in a straight line with your hands

Sorry I can't quite visualize the line you are talking about, is it on the floor? And do you mean halfway back (as in arms horizontal), the shaft should be past vertical (meaning wrists are already well cupped)?

Yes on the floor. Have a look at the attached pic. See the red line. Try and feel like you take the club back, with the triangle on that line (rather than the yellow one) using your turn only (using the takeaway feelings descibed above) and feel how the wrists set earlier. (almost immediately with a wedge and late with a driver) This is slightly exaggerated but you need to feel exaggerated to even get close to doing this right. Alsop try and swing back with some momentum to snap those wrists up. A small change will probably feel huge to you but at least try it and see if it works and let me know how you get on. The keys here are a connected rotational body turn and an earlier wrist set. Combine this with staying in your spine angle and I hope you'll notice a big difference

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Ooh that looks to be a very inside takeaway.. I thought I'd need to take it back more along the yellow line to get width in my backswing?

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

I've exaggeated slightly but just try it. Even when you make a tiny difference it will feel like a mile so trying to make that line would help

The yellow line should only be followed for 12-18 inches, no more and even then thats with a driver. From there it must come inside and work around and up. If you keep following the yellow line your arms must disconnect from you body or you must sway to the right. Indeed you can only really get there if you use your hands/arms. If you were to turn only, then you couldnt follow that yellow line for long

Try it and see

[Simon Woo]

Re: Outside in swing path

Understood on that exaggeration part. I will certainly try this out on the range this weekend Just to clarify this first, by taking it back along the red line keeping the triangle, it feels like I am delaying the following of the right elbow quite a bit.. Is that ok?

[pnearn]

Re: Outside in swing path

Not sure what you mean by delaying the following of the right elbow?