myths in golf

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

BY TIGER WOODS
Notice on my backswing (far left) how the white piece of tape on my forearm has rotated only slightly in relation to my body. That's because I keep my arms in front of my body with a wide, arcing backswing. On the through-swing (left), my left forearm still hasn't rotated much. That means the club has stayed square through impact.

#3 San Diego golf tip:
When throwing a dart, you extend your throwing hand straight toward the target.
When shooting hoops, you extend your shooting hand straight toward the hoop.
When swinging a golf club, extend through impact with your club pointing directly down the line...pointing straight toward your target.

http://www.tips-for-boomers.com/perfectgolfswing.html
You must follow a straight line when making the impact with the ball and then follow through without deviating; if your club curves off, so will the golf ball - and there is then more of a chance that it will end up in the woods, and not on the rough.

http://www.pga.com/improve/tips/swin..._obst02204.cfm
When we swing a golf club the path of the clubhead is in line with the target through impact, while the path of our hands should be parallel left of the target (right handed player) through impact. Of course, the path of both the club and our hands should be in an "arc" from the perspective of the entire swing. But, for a very short instant through impact we want our hands traveling parallel left of the line to the target.

Nick Bradley - The 7 laws of the Golf Swing:
"In all good swings, the right wrist joint and the right arm straighten through impact. The momentum of this action will naturally continue unless it is physically interupted. The right hand will work slightly under the left hand after striking the ball and, in doing so, will keep the clubface square to the target and on the optimum plane for the longest possible time."

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

well I guess that we swing on an arc might be complicated for some people, But once again I go back to YOUR statement of there being ONLY ONE WAY. Your statement was wrong. I have not said in this post what golfers should or should not know, what golfers should or should not think. I have just stated that your statement is wrong, a myth, the purpose of this thread. You keep going off on a tangent of me trying to make things complex or complicated of what golgers think about during the swing. When in this thread I have not expressessed anything of the such.

Shootin,

I gave my opinion on what I believe to be the best way to hit a golf ball. You decided to challenge this and say my thinking was a myth, that's OK, we are all entitled to our opinion and I will defend my thinking. You suggested in opposition to the clubface travelling straight through impact that it should be a certain number of degrees open and closed through impact, I simply suggested that golfers could not consider this in their swing, again that was my opinion. My comments regarding keeping things simple and understandable was a general statement of concern, not a direct slight on you.

I hope this clarifies? Anyway I am still doggedly clinging to my theory.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: myths in golf

Hi Brian,

if I may,

lets go back to my picture for a second or any picture you have of anyone who achieves this position before impact, Note the club toe is always pointing to the sky or maybe very slightly closing..................similar to the backswing at this position, now look just after impact at any pro the toe at 3 o clock is again pointing to the sky or even more closed.....................therefore the club face rotates through impact, if you set yourself at the range to hit a ball from that 'late' hit position, just set yourself and then let rip through a ball I guess that you will not be far off your normal hitting distance and you will feel the rotation.

You are correct that the face should be square at impact and although for only a nano-second this is a good few inches the face stays square thats why our divots are shaped like the bottom of the club, but this squaring only happens for this length of time because at the same time we are transfering the weight making the bottoming out take longer and this only happens when bottoming out due to gravity if we didn't transfer the weight a hook would happen and visa versa, this is why many at the range try rotating the hands and just keep flipping at it, it must be a combination of all the moves.



Just food for thought.


Ian.

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

Hi Brian,

if I may,

lets go back to my picture for a second or any picture you have of anyone who achieves this position before impact, Note the club toe is always pointing to the sky or maybe very slightly closing..................similar to the backswing at this position, now look just after impact at any pro the toe at 3 o clock is again pointing to the sky or even more closed.....................therefore the club face rotates through impact, if you set yourself at the range to hit a ball from that 'late' hit position, just set yourself and then let rip through a ball I guess that you will not be far off your normal hitting distance and you will feel the rotation.

You are correct that the face should be square at impact and although for only a nano-second this is a good few inches the face stays square thats why our divots are shaped like the bottom of the club, but this squaring only happens for this length of time because at the same time we are transfering the weight making the bottoming out take longer and this only happens when bottoming out due to gravity if we didn't transfer the weight a hook would happen and visa versa, this is why many at the range try rotating the hands and just keep flipping at it, it must be a combination of all the moves.



Just food for thought.


Ian.

Hi Ian,

I concur with what you have said. The halfway back and down position should have the shaft at waist high and around the same inclination as the right forearm, the leading edge should be pointing straight up and facing directly forward, the shaft should also be pointing towards a position between the feet and the ball. From here you can release square to impact. Yes the clubface will rotate on through to remain square to the body and yes it is in reality only a short period where the clubface remains square.

What I am trying to get at here is that it is important for people to understand and be conscious of keeping the clubface square to target through impact, it stops them closing the clubface to quickly or leaving it open. It's like understanding where the clubface should be at the top or at any position of the swing. Keeping the feeling of following through square and on to the quarter and half forward positions with fully extended arms is a great help for people learning the golf swing or getting rid of a slice or hook.

The true path of the clubface in the swing is complex, it is not a circle but a number of connected ellipses, nothing is really straight. The elliptical path of the club through the impact area, along with the initial take away should be the shallowest ellipse in the swing, the part that is nearest to a straight line than any other, if this area is restricted to a smaller arc due to breaking down the wrists and flipping then it is a massive power leak. Considering the left wrist straight or slightly supinated and traveling straight through at impact creates a powerful clean connection with the ball.

I have got into more detail than I wanted to here but this is the way I see it and what works for me and hopefull others that suffer with poor ball contact.

[Ian Hancock]

Re: myths in golf

I have to agree Brian,

We are simply two blokes discussing a very complex move and quite correctly we have to 'feel' what is best for us.

One further point if a robot swings the club the bottoming would be V shaped, but as we transfer weight the bottoming is U shaped hence the square face for a short lengh of time.

Again back to my picture although from behind, if it were all thoses players face on then everyone would have his hands almost or just passing the ball and the club still trailing behind, at that exact moment the release happens the hands are almost stationary compared to the distance the club head travels, hence the back of the left hand faces the target for a short time during impact squaring the face.

If it were only that simple...........lol


Have a good weekend, just heard it's -30 in Canada.

Ian.

[cyc53870]

Re: myths in golf

Someone wrote here that Trevino once boasted that he was the only golfer that swings "square-to-square"... What does that mean? Was he exaggerating?

[Ian Hancock]

Re: myths in golf

Hi There,

Trevino's swing is very flat due to his height, I would say he is inside to inside very quickly.............his boast sounds more like his ability to hit a ball very straight neither bending one way or the other............a very difficult thing to do with the equipment of the time.

Somewhat like me, tall players have an advantage of swinging more upright and stay on the target line a fraction longer, however shorter players are more compact.............I will not venture any further with this discussion about advantages and disadvantages........!!!!


Ian.

[Teevino]

Re: myths in golf

Here's a myth:

Game Improvement Club.

If it truly improved one's game, it would be used by professional players.

Here's another myth:

You must purchase the equipment based on your ability.

If that were true, I'd buy new equipment every time my ability changed.

Yet another myth:

You must take many lessons or go to a teacher or a coach before you become any good.

The number of lessons is irrelevant. I can learn anything I want without taking a single lesson, so can you, so can anybody. I can also not learn anything after having taken a thousand lessons, so can you, so can anybody. Some great athletes have never taken lessons or went to a teacher or coach.

And another myth:

Practice makes permanent.

If that were true, the professional players would never practice. If what they practiced were made permanent, why would they practice it more? It makes no sense. The correct saying is practice makes perfect, it's been true and will always remain true.

Another myth:

Sending the ball far is more important than sending the ball straight.

The game of golf isn't based on how far one sends a ball but instead it is based on how close one sends a ball. How close to the target. Here's a question to put it in perspective: How much farther than the target do you want to send the ball? The question doesn't make sense. I want to send the ball to the target, not after it, not before it, not besides it.

I agree, Thanx Martin..

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

Here's a myth:

Game Improvement Club.

If it truly improved one's game, it would be used by professional players.

Here's another myth:

You must purchase the equipment based on your ability.

If that were true, I'd buy new equipment every time my ability changed.

Yet another myth:

You must take many lessons or go to a teacher or a coach before you become any good.

The number of lessons is irrelevant. I can learn anything I want without taking a single lesson, so can you, so can anybody. I can also not learn anything after having taken a thousand lessons, so can you, so can anybody. Some great athletes have never taken lessons or went to a teacher or coach.

And another myth:

Practice makes permanent.

If that were true, the professional players would never practice. If what they practiced were made permanent, why would they practice it more? It makes no sense. The correct saying is practice makes perfect, it's been true and will always remain true.

Another myth:

Sending the ball far is more important than sending the ball straight.

The game of golf isn't based on how far one sends a ball but instead it is based on how close one sends a ball. How close to the target. Here's a question to put it in perspective: How much farther than the target do you want to send the ball? The question doesn't make sense. I want to send the ball to the target, not after it, not before it, not besides it.

Good post Martin.

I would only wish to say that perfect practice makes perfect. If you practice the wrong thing all you will do is become better at doing the wrong thing.

[shootin4par]

Re: myths in golf

if you want to beleive something that continually goes in an arc magically goes in a straight line for a couple inches then fine. If you want to believe that somthing that continually rotates magically stops rotating for a couple inches then fine as well. Books or people can express what they want but laws of physics and motion are laws. So on the way down the clubface rotates coming into the ball, then stops for a second, then goes back to rotating? THe arc stops for a second and becomes a straight line, then goes back to an arc? These things could not happen without manipulation and at 100 mph, that would be very difficult. All the weight shift does is change the pivot center from right leg to left leg. Swing a weight on a string with an inclined plane and try to get it to go in a straight line. By defying laws of motion you are complicating the issue rather then simplifying it.

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

if you want to believe something that continually goes in an arc magically goes in a straight line for a couple inches then fine. If you want to believe that something that continually rotates magically stops rotating for a couple inches then fine as well. Books or people can express what they want but laws of physics and motion are laws. So on the way down the clubface rotates coming into the ball, then stops for a second, then goes back to rotating? The arc stops for a second and becomes a straight line, then goes back to an arc? These things could not happen without manipulation and at 100 mph, that would be very difficult. All the weight shift does is change the pivot center from right leg to left leg. Swing a weight on a string with an inclined plane and try to get it to go in a straight line. By defying laws of motion you are complicating the issue rather then simplifying it.

Shootin,

I did say that the golf swing is not a circular motion, did you read my post on the make up of the swingpath through ellipses? What's this about stopping for a second, who said that? it cannot be compared directly to a weight on a string and does not continually go on an arc, that is a myth.

I also explained that what is important to someone learning or sometimes fixing a swing is the concept of keeping the clubface on target through impact, it is amazing how the brain can control and manipulate these things at great speed, actually the speed of the arms and hands is much less than the clubface and that is where the control is made. I think you must agree that I am not the only person with this swing thought, just read my example quotations. OK, maybe you disagree and I fully respect that you have a different opinion, that's fine. What I and others speak of is getting the right feel during the swing and that cannot be expressed as physics or breaking down the concept into small detail.

[cyc53870]

Re: myths in golf

Yes, not many golfers can be physics scientists!

Is it a myth that the bigger you are the further you can swing? I mean look at all the top pro golfers nowadays... they are over 6ft plus already. Plus what about working out (pumping iron) on them biceps and triceps? Will this enable one to hit further?

[shootin4par]

Re: myths in golf

I did say that the golf swing is not a circular motion, did you read my post on the make up of the swingpath through ellipses? did I say the swingpath was a circle or did I say it was an arc, the two are different. What's this about stopping for a second, who said that? The only way for the face to stay square is if it has stopped its rotation or never rotate at all, and the only way to swing on a line to the target is if the swing is straight up and down, completely verticle with no inclined plane. it cannot be compared directly to a weight on a string and does not continually go on an arc, that is a myth. the clubhead may, through manipulation, go straight on the takeaway but once the club is dropping into the slot it will become a weight on a string after well after impact it will react diffrently as well on the folllow through because of the shaft stiffness, but from the slot untilll above hip high, in a swing it is weight on a string. Now hitting is another matter

I also explained that what is important to someone learning or sometimes , fixing a swing is the concept of keeping the clubface on target through impact,here your wording has changed from your original post of "only correct way" it is amazing how the brain can control and manipulate these things at great speed, actually the speed of the arms and hands is much less than the clubface and that is where the control is made. Pretty basic knowledge, kind of like the further away from the hub you get the faster the object is traveling. and since the arms and hands are the last things in control of the club I would expect them to be the controling factors I think you must agree that I am not the only person with this swing thought, swing THOUGHT is a long was away from your ORIGINAL POST of only correct way. just read my example quotations. OK, maybe you disagree and I fully respect that you have a different opinion, that's fine. What I and others speak of is getting the right feel during the swing and that cannot be expressed as physics or breaking down the concept into small detail.[/quote]

you also said in a previous post "It is quite possible to come to the ball on an inside arc, straighten out the path through impact for a short time then return to an arc" You said in this post "I also explained that what is important to someone learning or sometimes fixing a swing is the concept of keeping the clubface on target through impact" and in your intial correct post is was "Only one way" So is it only one way, quite possible, or important to learning sometimes. Your first post was an ABSOULUTE, your ABSOLUTE was wrong and a myth. you dont want to see it and you want to add more words to make your first post, which was a wrong myth, valid


you also said I gave my opinion on what I believe to be the best way to hit a golf ball." when you say things like only one way, which you did in your ORIGINAL post, it does not sound like opinions to me. You are getting off of your original post and trying to win a debate away from your original words rather then sticking to your guns on your ORIGINAL post and my original response.

PS. Out of all the people here who do you think has looked at the golfswing with an open mind from the most different angles, and tried to learn each of those methods/angles and kept an open mind. You may see that person as a now it all but I can assure you that he knows more about the swing then most of us combined. might be a little wordy and hard to understand at times but then again explaining on a computer is hard. My point is if if that person disagrees or agrees with something I would take note and if I did not believe him I would make it a point to find out what he is talking about. In life just cause people are older does not make them more knowledgeable but a seeker of truth, about whatever, will find things most people will not and to find the truth you must have an open mind to when you may be wrong. If I was told my statement was wrong by Cmays, I would have took notice and did some research.

[cyc53870]

Re: myths in golf

This is serious stuff but very interesting too. We can learn a lot from it.

[BrianW]

Re: myths in golf

Shootin,

I have stated time and again that this is my opinion. If you want to understand the shape a swing takes have a look at Hogan' 5 Lessons, he has a nice drawing, the shape between the slot and release is anything but a circle.

I can see no point in continuing with, and tire of a nit-picking debate like this. If you could keep to the issue at hand in-stead of trying to play with semantics and irrelevances it would be more worthwhile. It is easier to sit on the fence and snipe I guess.

Have a nice one