No More Lessons!!!

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

The 3 Imperatives of a Good Golf Swing

1. Flat left wrist at impact
2. Clubshaft on plane
3. Clubhead lag

I wish I had known #'s 1 and 3 6 years ago in the detail I know them now. It would have taken me about 5-6 months to become a low handicap player, but all the component talk of the clowns at my club, golf digest, golf magazine and too many of the "top 100" teachers had me wasting time with "flying right elbow, move the ball back, pull down from the top, start down with shoulders, swing in a barrell etc......IMO, had I known what IS most important first, I could have saved myself so much time and frustration. Most amatuers all over the world face the same, no doubt.

Do you mean to imply that by only knowing those three aspects of the golf swing, anybody could play well after 5-6 months? What if they only focus on doing those three things perfectly but never hit a ball during all that time, do you think they will play just as well?

Now I will tell you what I think are the imperatives.

There is only one: Proper contact between the clubhead and the ball. The alternative is improper contact.

Now let us compare your imperatives to mine.

What if I did not do your three imperatives and still achieved mine? Would I still obey the overal imperatives of golf? Quite certainly. What if I did do your three imperatives but not mine? Would I then obey the overall imperatives of golf?

[slater170]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Do you mean to imply that by only knowing those three aspects of the golf swing, anybody could play well after 5-6 months? What if they only focus on doing those three things perfectly but never hit a ball during all that time, do you think they will play just as well?

Now I will tell you what I think are the imperatives.

There is only one: Proper contact between the clubhead and the ball. The alternative is improper contact.

Now let us compare your imperatives to mine.

What if I did not do your three imperatives and still achieved mine? Would I still obey the overal imperatives of golf? Quite certainly. What if I did do your three imperatives but not mine? Would I then obey the overall imperatives of golf?

jeez here we go again!

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Do you mean to imply that by only knowing those three aspects of the golf swing, anybody could play well after 5-6 months? What if they only focus on doing those three things perfectly but never hit a ball during all that time, do you think they will play just as well?

Now I will tell you what I think are the imperatives.

There is only one: Proper contact between the clubhead and the ball. The alternative is improper contact.

Now let us compare your imperatives to mine.

What if I did not do your three imperatives and still achieved mine? Would I still obey the overal imperatives of golf? Quite certainly. What if I did do your three imperatives but not mine? Would I then obey the overall imperatives of golf?

My 3 imperatives kind of imply proper contact. I didn't think I had to disclose that. Of course that is the goal!

If you COULD great. I don't see how but great. I think you could pretty much line up the 10 greatest players of all time and ALL of them would have a flat left wrist at impact, clubhead lag for sure, some/most would have a clubshaft on plane. Just my research.

[shootin4par]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

jbrunk,
what is a straight plane ling?

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Shootin,
I meant clubshaft on plane.

[edshaw]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin:
All good questions and ggod points. I'll give my
answer to what I think is the most important
one, that is, "What is the best thing a person
can do?"
Find a PGA or BPGA pro he or she feels comfortable
and confident taking lessons from. Today, I might
also look for a tech savvy pro who uses teaching
aids.
On the range, work mainly on the previous lesson.
Sure, you can have some fun, maybe try and put
a few out of the park, but, basically, you are there
to work on what the pro told you needed working on.
Then, play. And, play for score, not for a excuse to
drink.
Here's the problem with going off on your own with
only distance as the criteria (bear in mind the thread
was started by a golfer who was ready to throw it in
with regard to lessons) : There are a lot of driver swings
that result in distance that are swings that simply do
not translate into success through the rest of the bag.
A good sound swing, though, doesn't change all that
much through the bag, at least the fundamentals of
a good sound swing are about the same.
I was by no means advising to stay off the range.
The main flaw in self taught driving range swings:
too fast.

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin:
All good questions and ggod points. I'll give my
answer to what I think is the most important
one, that is, "What is the best thing a person
can do?"
Find a PGA or BPGA pro he or she feels comfortable
and confident taking lessons from. Today, I might
also look for a tech savvy pro who uses teaching
aids.
On the range, work mainly on the previous lesson.
Sure, you can have some fun, maybe try and put
a few out of the park, but, basically, you are there
to work on what the pro told you needed working on.
Then, play. And, play for score, not for a excuse to
drink.
Here's the problem with going off on your own with
only distance as the criteria (bear in mind the thread
was started by a golfer who was ready to throw it in
with regard to lessons) : There are a lot of driver swings
that result in distance that are swings that simply do
not translate into success through the rest of the bag.
A good sound swing, though, doesn't change all that
much through the bag, at least the fundamentals of
a good sound swing are about the same.
I was by no means advising to stay off the range.
The main flaw in self taught driving range swings:
too fast.

Well put Ed, I fully concur.

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

My 3 imperatives kind of imply proper contact. I didn't think I had to disclose that. Of course that is the goal!

If you COULD great. I don't see how but great. I think you could pretty much line up the 10 greatest players of all time and ALL of them would have a flat left wrist at impact, clubhead lag for sure, some/most would have a clubshaft on plane. Just my research.

So, it is implied that your three imperatives will produce proper impact. Granted.

Then, would it not be reasonable to conclude that if one was to focus only on making proper contact, one would eventually arrive at your three imperatives?

Even if one did not arrive at your imperatives in this fashion, don't you think that it wouldn't matter one bit since proper contact would still be achieved?

Proper contact, as a unique starting point, will naturally and automatically lead to all kinds of methods as shown by the diversity of today's professional players' methods.

The reverse, a unique starting method like your three imperatives leading to proper contact, is just not true.

And now, how many teachers do you know of will explicitly state that the purpose of the golf swing is to achieve proper contact using any method possible? I know not a one.

Therefore I conclude that learning how to play golf on one's own is particulary effective and probably quicker than going through a teacher.

We can deduce everything there is to know about golf from the Rules of Golf.

[jbrunk]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

So, it is implied that your three imperatives will produce proper impact. Granted.

Then, would it not be reasonable to conclude that if one was to focus only on making proper contact, one would eventually arrive at your three imperatives?

Even if one did not arrive at your imperatives in this fashion, don't you think that it wouldn't matter one bit since proper contact would still be achieved?

Proper contact, as a unique starting point, will naturally and automatically lead to all kinds of methods as shown by the diversity of today's professional players' methods.

The reverse, a unique starting method like your three imperatives leading to proper contact, is just not true.

And now, how many teachers do you know of will explicitly state that the purpose of the golf swing is to achieve proper contact using any method possible? I know not a one.

Therefore I conclude that learning how to play golf on one's own is particulary effective and probably quicker than going through a teacher.

We can deduce everything there is to know about golf from the Rules of Golf.

We are talking about learning to play good golf right? I mean if your talking 120 yard 7 irons, then I guess you may be right. I am talking about properly hitting(compressing) the golf ball like every pro I have ever seen. You seem to disagree that can be done without lag and a flat left wrist at impact. So show me.

I don't even understand your second statement about asking a teacher about the purpose of the swing. If not for proper contact than what the hell are we doing here?

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

And now, how many teachers do you know of will explicitly state that the purpose of the golf swing is to achieve proper contact using any method possible? I know not a one.

Martin,

I am not trying to be sarcastic in saying: You must be the most dogmatic person I have experienced! has anyone else ever said that to you? Do you ever accept any part of another's point of view?

Moving on to the above quote. You are correct, teachers will not say that, why? Because they know that "any method possible" will probably be a difficult journey that they can shortcut. They will want the pupil to make proper contact by using basic fundamentals. Teaching a golfer is not so different than training a swimmer, a formula one racing driver, a tennis player, a cricketer, see and do, do again, see again, do again, got it.

Non sarcastic zone over.

Go on Martin! agree, go on! just a bit, see what it feels like, you may like it if you try, it's not hard, you just say "Hmmm, yes I can see your point" or something similar.

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

We are talking about learning to play good golf right? I mean if your talking 120 yard 7 irons, then I guess you may be right. I am talking about properly hitting(compressing) the golf ball like every pro I have ever seen. You seem to disagree that can be done without lag and a flat left wrist at impact. So show me.

I don't even understand your second statement about asking a teacher about the purpose of the swing. If not for proper contact than what the hell are we doing here?

I think we are talking about learning how to play golf. The concept of good or bad doesn't apply here. I can hit my 7 iron 120 yards just as well as I can hit it 150 yards so I don't see your point there. Compressing the ball is a function of the ball's compressibility and depends largely on the quality of contact between the clubhead and the ball. Compressing the ball is not a function of the technique used to swing the club.

If you are unable to compress the ball like the pros do, then perhaps you should review your method for achieving the intended result. I suggest focusing exclusively on making proper contact without regard for the technique you use to achieve that. If you do not know by now, proper contact will transmit much more power to the ball than otherwise therefore it will compress the ball much more than otherwise as well.

I simply disagree with your three imperatives and I've shown clearly the reasons why I disagree.

You may not understand because proper contact for you was implied, not explicit. For me, proper contact is always explicit.

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin,

You are still not trying it. Go on, you will feel better!

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Martin,

I am not trying to be sarcastic in saying: You must be the most dogmatic person I have experienced! has anyone else ever said that to you? Do you ever accept any part of another's point of view?

Moving on to the above quote. You are correct, teachers will not say that, why? Because they know that "any method possible" will probably be a difficult journey that they can shortcut. They will want the pupil to make proper contact by using basic fundamentals. Teaching a golfer is not so different than training a swimmer, a formula one racing driver, a tennis player, a cricketer, see and do, do again, see again, do again, got it.

Non sarcastic zone over.

Go on Martin! agree, go on! just a bit, see what it feels like, you may like it if you try, it's not hard, you just say "Hmmm, yes I can see your point" or something similar.

I may or may not be dogmatic but that's irrelevant. Do you mean to say that I acknowledge any part of another person's view? Then yes, I always acknowledge whatever I disagree with simply by disagreeing with it.

Teachers may want the pupil to make proper contact by using basic fundamentals and that is precisely why the pupil does the wrong thing over and over. He does them because he shouldn't ever do the wrong thing and never tries anything different. I think that this right there is a much more difficult journey than any other.

Yes, I agree teaching golf is just like teaching anything else. The same applies to learning on one's own.

[BrianW]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Come on now Martin, we are waiting!

[Martin Levac]

Re: No More Lessons!!!

Come on now Martin, we are waiting!

Brian, you are pushing the concept of personal attacks with your request that I take action of some kind. I ask you to stop now, please. Thank you. If it is any help, think of it as addressing the text instead of addressing the person who wrote it.