Which arm controls and powers the swing?

[eddie3392]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

I have one last question -- went and played today trying to incorporate the right side. After four holes I started to get the feeling of using my right side. My question is this, others here believe that you should not initiate the downswing with the hands, so how would pros or others supply the force if the hands are not an active part of the downswing. Logically I don't see how turning the shoulders without the hands guiding the club back to the ball is possible. I am in between theories and would appreciate a little help from this forum. I am a 5 handicap and I play a lot of tournaments but the hooks were destroying my game so I start to learn the cut shot. I really took the club way inside but I am now feeling like I take the club away outside even though it really is straight back. I set the club late and I am looking for a method that I can use under pressure. I guess I need a clear understanding of the swing broke down or simplified if possible.

Sorry for the long string.
Eddie

[shootin4par]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

eddie, your long string is shorter then most.
when it all comes down to it you must figure out for yourself. I will tell you right side, others will tell you left

your quote
"Logically I don't see how turning the shoulders without the hands guiding the club back to the ball is possible"

so you speak of logic, from your quote logicallay I would assume the following statement,

the hands cannot dominate the swing nor can the body. They must be blended and in harmony togethor. Tha hands are not just along for the ride and the body is not the only engine.

Imho you sound as if you are close to understanding but then again I am just another person,
take a teniis racket and hit a forehand with both hands, then with left hand only, then with right hand only. when you did one hand only tell me which side was more dominant, powerful and accurate. I would bet that your answer to that would be your answer to what you seek in the golf swing.

Have fun eddie
Neil

[GolfJunkieSr]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

GolfJunkieSr:

There is less injuries from the right side unless you catch the tree root on the way down before impact and it does not matter what kind of hitter you are.

We need to clean up the thinking machine, the brain because the impact actions are not the same.

Pulling down from the left side for a right handed golfer is a large scooping action in which the clubface descends, makes impact towards the topside of the ball and the clubface continues to travel down to make a divot and the it travels back up. At impact there is some strain on the back left hand and joints.

Pushing is strikinking down at the ball that involves the right palm in either a downward or upward action that is stronger then the back of the left hand and the palm is better equip to handle such action.

Take the back of the left hand and hit the top of your left leg and then take the palm of the right hand and hit the top of the right leg and see which sting will last longer.

Pulling also has an effect on the spine. Pushing decreases the effects.

Pulling causes strain in the backswing when you are fully loaded at the top and with pushing there is no need to fully load.

There are many things I like about being a pusher, but the one that stands out for me being the Fatboy; I know longer had to make a full backswing turn to hit the long irons and woods and the speed and leverage was all there w/o being fully coiled at the top.

If I can find one that is public, most of the studies are showing it is better from a helath standpoint to play from the right side.

Thank you for your opinion. GJS

[kbp]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

G1, thank you, also, sir. In experimenting with right side hitting and throwing, I’ve also observed many of the same things you mention. I don’t feel as sore in the back the next day. I noticed, as you say, about not having to be wound up tight in a coil and the lack of need for a full turn which, IMO, makes half and three-quarter shots easier.

Maybe you would be kind enough to expand on right hitting and throwing a bit more.

[shootin4par]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

kbp,
I have found the same to be true as well. I have a speed stick any day I can swing it at 135+ and some days, for some reason I get it to max out. Anyways, my point is If I am swinign say 135 with it on a full swwing. I can take the speed stick to the 9:00 poition, hold that position, and swing from there. No big coil, no big X factor, no momentum etc... and when I do this I loose 5 mph on it, that is all I am not pulling it but hitting with the right side. I also swing it about 12 MPH faster with a right side only swing rather then a left side only swing

[BrianW]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

kbp,
I have found the same to be true as well. I have a speed stick any day I can swing it at 135+ and some days, for some reason I get it to max out. Anyways, my point is If I am swinign say 135 with it on a full swwing. I can take the speed stick to the 9:00 poition, hold that position, and swing from there. No big coil, no big X factor, no momentum etc... and when I do this I loose 5 mph on it, that is all I am not pulling it but hitting with the right side. I also swing it about 12 MPH faster with a right side only swing rather then a left side only swing

What happens if you hit with both arms together?

What happens if you stop 6 inches down in your downswing then continue?

What happens if you stop at the top then continue?

What happens if you stop 6 inches before the top then continue?

[BrianW]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

Eddie,

Here is my two penneth for what it is worth, you can make up your own mind then.

The golf ball does not know whether we start the downswing with our arms or hips, our right or left arms, all it knows is how the clubface hits it and how fast. Now! the ball does like to tell us the answer to how it was hit in it's flight path and distance.

You were suffering from hooks (you did not mention pulls), the ball will have been struck in a way that created anti-clockwise side spin, what was causing that? Your clubface was closed in relation to your swingpath.

Rather that try to show or explain more in text, have a look at this video.

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/0,28385,,00.html

I would be happy to help further if you wish. Just ask please?

[shootin4par]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

What happens if you hit with both arms together?

What happens if you stop 6 inches down in your downswing then continue?

What happens if you stop at the top then continue?

What happens if you stop 6 inches before the top then continue?

brian, I was just sharinng what I have found with kbp
others may find something different.
when I swing with right arm only I get around 120 so when I swing with two arms I get 135, so by adding the left arm I gain 15 mph.
when I swing left arm only I might get 105-110, so when I add right arm on it I gain25-30 mph. For me the speed stick is a good tool to experiment with to figure things out such as this for myself.

[BrianW]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

brian, I was just sharinng what I have found with kbp
others may find something different.
when I swing with right arm only I get around 120 so when I swing with two arms I get 135, so by adding the left arm I gain 15 mph.
when I swing left arm only I might get 105-110, so when I add right arm on it I gain25-30 mph. For me the speed stick is a good tool to experiment with for me to figure things out such as this for myself.

Yes Neil, i was only thinking of what would happen with the speed stick in the suggested situations and how speed is affected by no, little or no coiling?

[shootin4par]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

Yes Neil, i was only thinking of what would happen with the speed stick in the suggested situations and how speed is affected by no, little or no coiling?

ok, brian
I will go do some swings with no pivot at all the only turn will be shoulder abduction and adduction but my chest wont move, and then I will post the results
I will also do six inches before the top, then you want me to stop there and ghtne go to the top and down, right?
I am clear on the other positions
so I will report back after the range tonight so I can do this when I am warmed up
I will also coil my shoulders against my hips X factor, and report on that too and write them all down

[BrianW]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

ok, brian
I will go do some swings with no pivot at all the only turn will be shoulder abduction and adduction but my chest wont move, and then I will post the results
I will also do six inches before the top, then you want me to stop there and ghtne go to the top and down, right?
I am clear on the other positions
so I will report back after the range tonight so I can do this when I am warmed up
I will also coil my shoulders against my hips X factor, and report on that too and write them all down

That's right Neil. In other words, First swing start the swing 6 inches before the top, second swing start at the top, third start six inches into the downswing.

[shootin4par]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

Mr. Mays
so when I rotate the plate I am making my left wrist bow and therefore it wants to release, gaining some speed, is that what you are talking about?


Mr. Brian
numbers
hit 15 balls and then took out the speed stick and note pad

3 full swings first
130 132 132=131.3 avg

6 in before top 127 127 128= 127.3 avg

at top130 130 129= 129.6 avg note, on this I made sure my at top position was as perfect as I could make it, not coild but position of weight, arms, etx..


6 inches after top 130 128 125 = 127.6

x factor where I turned all shoulders to start backswing, this felt bad on my back 125. 132 132=129.6

3 more fulls at the end with weight shift to start my back swing
135 132 130 132.3

[BrianW]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

Mr. Mays
so when I rotate the plate I am making my left wrist bow and therefore it wants to release, gaining some speed, is that what you are talking about?


Mr. Brian
numbers
hit 15 balls and then took out the speed stick and note pad

3 full swings first
130 132 132=131.3 avg

6 in before top 127 127 128= 127.3 avg

at top130 130 129= 129.6 avg note, on this I made sure my at top position was as perfect as I could make it, not coild but position of weight, arms, etx..


6 inches after top 130 128 125 = 127.6

x factor where I turned all shoulders to start backswing, this felt bad on my back 125. 132 132=129.6

3 more fulls at the end with weight shift to start my back swing
135 132 130 132.3

Interesting numbers Neil and closer than I would have imagined, that may be due to your lack of coiling though. I need to consider that a bit but thanks for your time.

[jimhanjhi]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

I agree I started pushing more than pulling a while back and my right elbow started really hurting after a while. It was taking a majority of the
shock from impact. I started to pull with the left arm and it stopped hurting after a while. I lost a few yrds but man the pain was excruciating.

[jambalaya]

Re: Which arm controls and powers the swing?

I have one last question -- went and played today trying to incorporate the right side. After four holes I started to get the feeling of using my right side. My question is this, others here believe that you should not initiate the downswing with the hands, so how would pros or others supply the force if the hands are not an active part of the downswing. Logically I don't see how turning the shoulders without the hands guiding the club back to the ball is possible. I am in between theories and would appreciate a little help from this forum. I am a 5 handicap and I play a lot of tournaments but the hooks were destroying my game so I start to learn the cut shot. I really took the club way inside but I am now feeling like I take the club away outside even though it really is straight back. I set the club late and I am looking for a method that I can use under pressure. I guess I need a clear understanding of the swing broke down or simplified if possible.

Sorry for the long string.
Eddie

A five handicap huh? Let's see, how can I mess up your swing.